Bloody Weekend for top ranked teams...

[ledzepp8]

Because it's easier to get rid of a team that isn't involved with any other sports in the conference.

Okay...I still don't see what the problem is. They kicked out Temple because they were perennially bad.

[mweb]

Well the point is that the bigger conferences are basically two conferences in one, as not ever team plays each other. So if you looked at the subdivisions of each bigger conference, you could say the same thing.

And I still don't know what you're talking about when you say the Big East is keeping out programs that are in the conference otherwise. Besides the fact that the Big East didn't become a football conference until 1991 and thus the basketball conference has been around for a lot longer. But they aren't keeping any of the basketball conference teams out.

Notre Dame won't join any conference.

Depaul doesn't have a football team.

Georgetown is in Division I-AA.

Providence doesn't have a football team.

St. John's doesn't have a football team.

Seton Hall doesn't have a football team.

Villanova is in Division I-AA.

Their still one big conference though, and teams play some of the teams from the other divisions in those conferences, and then obviously have a title game. But yeah, of course it's easier for one 6 team division to be good top to bottom.

Talking about GTown and Villanova. I didn't say they were keeping anyone out, was wondering if those schools will eventually join the Big East in football, and saying if the ACC for instance could get rid of Duke, that would help the football conference. I know those schools are I-AA, just pointing out that the really weak football links in the Big East aren't actually in the Big East, but the really weak links in other conferences are. It's not a big deal, was just curious if there's plans to let those teams in at some point.

[mweb]

Okay...I still don't see what the problem is. They kicked out Temple because they were perennially bad.

When did I say it was a problem?

[geschinger]

Well I only see the computer ratings for the 3 ranked Big East schools. 5 of them have UConn in the top 12, that right there should tell you not to put too much faith in the computer rankings. What was that ranking based on? Beating Louisville at home by 4 with the help of a bogus call and beating a bunch of bad teams. A lot of unranked schools would have been 6-1 with UConn's schedule.

Ok, so Oregon State is the 2nd best out of conference win for Big East schools? Their ok.

I don't know what schedules you're looking at, but yes, the Big East schools have played poor OOC schedules. They all have 5 OOC games, and combined have played 3 teams(4 games) that are currently ranked, 2 of which may not be ranked after this week. No teams ranked ranked higher than 14, and again, Kentucky and UVA will drop a lot tomorrow. And there's tons of cupcakes in there. Florida St and Miami alone probably have more impressive OOC opponents than the whole Big East combined.

Yes, Kansas has played a bad schedule, but I'll take what they've done over what UConn has done.

What are you looking at? It can't be the computer rankings used in the BCS as UConn's computer rankings range from 13th to unranked and their average ranking is 16th. They are essentially tied w/Auburn in the computer polls. Where are you coming up 5 top 12 rankings?

Florida State and Miami do have impressive OOC schedules. Hopefully their poor seasons don't lead them to schedule lighter in the future. But they are exceptions rather than the rule. They probably have tougher OOC opponents than the other 10 teams in their conference combined. Looking at the current BCS top 10 (of course USF will drop) only USF, LSU and Oregon have beaten a top 25 OOC opponent. At quick glance it looks like the record is even worse for the next 10. Hardly anyone schedules tough OOC games - the BEast has nothing to apologize for in their scheduling especially since they have been working hard on getting better games as seen in their future opponents. Hopefully teams from other conferences are doing the same.

I would take what Kansas has done so far over UConn as well. They have made it through unscathed so far. The UConn schedule is a lot tougher than the Kansas schedule from here on out and if they somehow did finish w/only one loss (which they won't) theirs would be a greater accomplishment than Kansas making it through their schedule.

[mweb]

What are you looking at? It can't be the computer rankings used in the BCS as UConn's computer rankings range from 13th to unranked and their average ranking is 16th. They are essentially tied w/Auburn in the computer polls. Where are you coming up 5 top 12 rankings?

Florida State and Miami do have impressive OOC schedules. Hopefully their poor seasons don't lead them to schedule lighter in the future. But they are exceptions rather than the rule. They probably have tougher OOC opponents than the other 10 teams in their conference combined. Looking at the current BCS top 10 (of course USF will drop) only USF, LSU and Oregon have beaten a top 25 OOC opponent. At quick glance it looks like the record is even worse for the next 10. Hardly anyone schedules tough OOC games - the BEast has nothing to apologize for in their scheduling especially since they have been working hard on getting better games as seen in their future opponents. Hopefully teams from other conferences are doing the same.

I would take what Kansas has done so far over UConn as well. They have made it through unscathed so far. The UConn schedule is a lot tougher than the Kansas schedule from here on out and if they somehow did finish w/only one loss (which they won't) theirs would be a greater accomplishment than Kansas making it through their schedule.

Yeah, I screwed up on looking at the computer ratings. Tied for 16th before todays win is still a joke imo. And as I said, a lot of unranked teams would be 6-1 with that schedule. MD would be at least 5-2 right now with that schedule.

Considering the Big East teams play more out of conference games than other schools, they should have more tough games. And I still think their OOC schedule as a whole is weaker than normal. And some of the top schools from other conferences don't schedule hard because their conference is considered quite tough pluys they have a conference title game to play if they make it that far. The Big East doesn't have the title game to consider, and I think their still at the point where they need to prove themselves as a conference. Most people aren't going to think going 7-1 in the Big East like UConn might do is as impressive as a team doing that in most of the other conferences.

Considering Kansas will most likely have to play Oklahoma in the Big 12 title game if they remain undefeated, I strongly disagree with that.

[mweb]

Florida State and Miami do have impressive OOC schedules. Hopefully their poor seasons don't lead them to schedule lighter in the future. But they are exceptions rather than the rule. They probably have tougher OOC opponents than the other 10 teams in their conference combined.

Well as you know MD went to Rutgers and hosted WVU. Duke played UConn. UNC played USF and South Carolina. GT plays Georgia. VaTech played LSU. UVA played UConn. Clemson plays South Carolina.

So I don't think your statement is true, and I think if you compare the ACC's OOC schedule to the Big East's, the ACC has the tougher one.

[geschinger]

Yeah, I screwed up on looking at the computer ratings. Tied for 16th before todays win is still a joke imo. And as I said, a lot of unranked teams would be 6-1 with that schedule. MD would be at least 5-2 right now with that schedule.

Considering the Big East teams play more out of conference games than other schools, they should have more tough games. And I still think their OOC schedule as a whole is weaker than normal. And some of the top schools from other conferences don't schedule hard because their conference is considered quite tough pluys they have a conference title game to play if they make it that far. The Big East doesn't have the title game to consider, and I think their still at the point where they need to prove themselves as a conference. Most people aren't going to think going 7-1 in the Big East like UConn might do is as impressive as a team doing that in most of the other conferences.

Considering Kansas will most likley have to play Oklahoma in the Big 12 title game if they remain undefeated, I strongly disagree with that.

Big East teams play one extra OOC game compared to teams from other conferences. Not a huge difference IMO.

This brings everything back to my original point that most fans and national media underrate the BEast. Most people would be wrong to think that going 6-1 in BEast play is less impressive than say a Virginia going 7-1 in ACC play or Kansas going 7-1 in B12 play. If you happen to be a school in the weaker division of one of the overly large conferences its entirely possible to win a conference w/o ever having to play one of the best teams in that conference.

If KU has to play Oklahoma that evens things out considerably giving them a matchup similar to UConn @ WVU. But KU is a perfect example of what could happen in a mega conference that could never happen in the BEast. If OU were to lose between now and then it would be possible for KU to win the B12 and an auto bid to a BCS game w/o ever having to play two of the best teams (OU and Texas) in the conference.

[geschinger]

Well as you know MD went to Rutgers and hosted WVU. Duke played UConn. UNC played USF and South Carolina. GT plays Georgia. VaTech played LSU. UVA played UConn. Clemson plays South Carolina.

So I don't think your statement is true, and I think if you compare the ACC's OOC schedule to the Big East's, the ACC has the tougher one.

It may be a bit short. FSU has UF which is about equivalent to Maryland's WVU matchup. Miami had Oklahoma which is somewhat equivalent to VaTech vs LSU. FSU also has Alabama and Colorodo. Miami had Texas A&M. The emergence of UConn definately pushes the rest of the confences OOC schedule over FSU/UM. Question is, if UConn continues to be a good team, will those teams keep them on the schedule or drop them for the next program making the jump to Div1.

[mweb]

Big East teams play one extra OOC game compared to teams from other conferences. Not a huge difference IMO.

This brings everything back to my original point that most fans and national media underrate the BEast. Most people would be wrong to think that going 6-1 in BEast play is less impressive than say a Virginia going 7-1 in ACC play or Kansas going 7-1 in B12 play. If you happen to be a school in the weaker division of one of the overly large conferences its entirely possible to win a conference w/o ever having to play one of the best teams in that conference.

If KU has to play Oklahoma that evens things out considerably giving them a matchup similar to UConn @ WVU. But KU is a perfect example of what could happen in a mega conference that could never happen in the BEast. If OU were to lose between now and then it would be possible for KU to win the B12 and an auto bid to a BCS game w/o ever having to play two of the best teams (OU and Texas) in the conference.

1 game is a decent difference when it's playing a conference opponent compared to a cupcake.

Yeah, going 7-1 in the Big East can be more difficult than in other conferences depending on the schedule, not denying that, just talking about perception and why the Big East teams should schedule harder.

With the conference title game, it's very unlikey that a team could make it to the BCS bowl game without playing a tough conference schedule.

And if Kansas goes undefeated with their schedule, that's more than even compared to UConn only losing to WVU. Not sure if that was the scenario you meant, but you never mentioned Kansas losing, so that's how I took it.

[mweb]

It may be a bit short. FSU has UF which is about equivalent to Maryland's WVU matchup. Miami had Oklahoma which is somewhat equivalent to VaTech vs LSU. FSU also has Alabama and Colorodo. Miami had Texas A&M. The emergence of UConn definately pushes the rest of the confences OOC schedule over FSU/UM. Question is, if UConn continues to be a good team, will those teams keep them on the schedule or drop them for the next program making the jump to Div1.

I have no idea. The OOC schedules are mostly already done for the next 5 years or so, but I don't know much about them. I think just about all the ACC schools like to play at least one tough OOC game each year, so maybe they'll keep them.

I would like to see BC and UConn play each year. I do know that BC and Syracuse have upcoming home and homes with USC, but that will be after the USC-Ohio State home and home that starts next year. Can't accuse USC of playing a weak schedule, this year they were unlucky, or lucky depending on the perspective that Notre Dame and Nebraska were down.

[mweb]

Here's the future Big East OOC games: http://dailymail.com/static/bigeastfb.pdf

Looks like a big improvement for some teams. And UMD plays UConn down the line, so there you go.

[geschinger]

1 game is a decent difference when it's playing a conference opponent compared to a cupcake.

Yeah, going 7-1 in the Big East can be more difficult than in other conferences depending on the schedule, not denying that, just talking about perception and why the Big East teams should schedule harder.

While the perception is wrong, BEast teams are adding a lot of quality OOC teams to the schedule. I'm confident they'd add even more if teams from other conferences were willing to play 'em.

If one is objective and ignores perception it would be hard to disagree w/Rich.

"I think the Big East has done a pretty good job of scheduling (non-conference games), particularly when you compare us to other BCS conferences. I get sometimes amused when people talk about, 'Well, they're in this league, so they don't need to schedule as many good games out of conference.' If you look at some of the other BCS teams. ... you have to question their strength of schedules."

— West Virginia coach Rich Rodriguez,

With the conference title game, it's very unlikey that a team could make it to the BCS bowl game without playing a tough conference schedule.

And if Kansas goes undefeated with their schedule, that's more than even compared to UConn only losing to WVU. Not sure if that was the scenario you meant, but you never mentioned Kansas losing, so that's how I took it.

Depending on the definition of tough schedule that might be the case. But it is common to have one division far superior to the others in these overly large conferences and it is relatively common for teams in the weaker division to win a conference championship w/o ever having to matchup against the better team. It happened a lot in the SEC back when UF and Tennesse were heads and shouldars above the rest of the league. It happens more recently w/OU and Texas in the same division.

I was using the scenario or KU and UConn both finishing w/one loss. 8-0 would be more impressive than 6-1 even w/a softer schedule.

[geschinger]

I have no idea. The OOC schedules are mostly already done for the next 5 years or so, but I don't know much about them. I think just about all the ACC schools like to play at least one tough OOC game each year, so maybe they'll keep them.

I would like to see BC and UConn play each year. I do know that BC and Syracuse have upcoming home and homes with USC, but that will be after the USC-Ohio State home and home that starts next year. Can't accuse USC of playing a weak schedule, this year they were unlucky, or lucky depending on the perspective that Notre Dame and Nebraska were down.

I have a lot of respect for USC and Michigan for playing tough OOC schedules. Bowden too always plays it tough. I have a lot more respect for him than I do for the guys at UF and UM. There is no excuse for the UM and UF not to play every year.

[mweb]

Of course you have to question some other teams OOC schedules as Rich said, but I think as a conference this year, the Big East has a weaker than normal OOC schedule.

[mweb]

I have a lot of respect for USC and Michigan for playing tough OOC schedules. Bowden too always plays it tough. I have a lot more respect for him than I do for the guys at UF and UM. There is no excuse for the UM and UF not to play every year.

Miami typically plays a tough OOC schedule and does play USF in the future, so I wouldn't lose any respect for that program due to their OOC schedule, and obviously UF plays FSU every year, so for them, being in what is often the toughest conferece, I can see why they wouldn't want to play FSU and Miami every year.