That's it... time to send Adam to Norfolk

[mcgraw238]

Again. I did not say that it is the majority of Hangouters that have a problem. But I am saying that I have never heard ANYONE here suggest that Nolan or Weiters are lazy or have ego problems. Only Jones.

You've heard plenty of criticism concerning Reimolds poor outfield instincts. You've also heard Jones, himself, say he "might" take the coaches suggestion to play deeper.

[JackO]

This is Neg Rep worthy. The whole F'in board wants Atkins cut and your citing him as evidence of fan racial bias. Actually, I think its worthy of being banned. Any fans wanting Reimold back ASAP are few and far between. Fact is Jones has shown signs of being a similar player to CPat and that is major cause for concern. Nice try troll.

Umm. Actually. No. I did not use Atkins as any example of fan racial bias. I said that he sucked.

I have said that fans seem harder on Jones than they do on his white team mates and they use specific types of criticisms that have racial and stereotypical undertones.

But you should think about why you think CPat and Jones are similar players. To me it seems that they have very different games and very different body types. They do have one similarity, though. They are both black.

Go back and look at my previous posts here before you call me a troll. I don't write often, but when I do I pick my spots. And the racial tension I sense among Baltimore Orioles fans is something that has long bothered me.

[JackO]

You've heard plenty of criticism concerning Reimolds poor outfield instincts. You've also heard Jones, himself, say he "might" take the coaches suggestion to play deeper.

And I happen to believe that Adam Jones should be sent down to work on his pitch recognition right now -- as do a good number of Hangouters. I have issues when people want to have him sent down to "give him a dose of humility," as some have suggested.

To me that reads "I want that boy sent down to put him in his place because he is lazy, can't understand his coaches and full o' his uppity self."

But who knows. Maybe I am just a white guy who is too sensitive.

[mcgraw238]

Umm. Actually. No. I did not use Atkins as any example of fan racial bias. I said that he sucked.

I have said that fans seem harder on Jones than they do on his white team mates and they use specific types of criticisms that have racial and stereotypical undertones.

But you should think about why you think CPat and Jones are similar players. To me it seems that they have very different games and very different body types. They do have one similarity, though. They are both black.

Go back and look at my previous posts here before you call me a troll. I don't write often, but when I do I pick my spots. And the racial tension I sense among Baltimore Orioles fans is something that has long bothered me.

I stand corrected on the Atkins point. Nice try on smearing me with the race taint on the Jones v. CPat comparison. Let's see: (1) both highly regarded CF Prospects, (2) Both 5-Tool talent, and (3) Both exhibit terrible plate discipline. But, you must be right, my subconscious racism is causing the comparison. I stand by my assertion that you are a troll; Your sense regarding Baltimore fans is piss poor.

[mcgraw238]

And I happen to believe that Adam Jones should be sent down to work on his pitch recognition right now -- as do a good number of Hangouters. I have issues when people want to have him sent down to "give him a dose of humility," as some have suggested.

To me that reads "I want that boy sent down to put him in his place because he is lazy, can't understand his coaches and full o' his uppity self."

But who knows. Maybe I am just a white guy who is too sensitive.

People wanted Luke Scott cut prior to his hot streak. People want Trembley and Crow fired ASAP. Some were saying bring up Bell just becuause. If you haven't noticed there has been a tad of insanity going on around here. Coming on here and suggesting there is some racial element on the part of O's fans will not help; Nor do I think it is grounded in reality whatsoever.

Perhaps Jones could use a dose of humility; I don't know. I haven't been one to use that as a basis. I just know he needs to make some adjustments. I do, however, think Jones has the desire and is immensely frustrated. In all, he has been pretty bad since the All-Star break last year. His lack of plate discipline over such a significant period is becoming a real cause for concern; Especially since were counting on Jones being one of the key building blocks.

[LookinUp]

And I happen to believe that Adam Jones should be sent down to work on his pitch recognition right now -- as do a good number of Hangouters. I have issues when people want to have him sent down to "give him a dose of humility," as some have suggested.

To me that reads "I want that boy sent down to put him in his place because he is lazy, can't understand his coaches and full o' his uppity self."

But who knows. Maybe I am just a white guy who is too sensitive.

I'm not going to humor this conversation beyond this post.

I think you're a clown who doesn't realize that in today's society, one of the most offensive accusations you can make is that someone is a racist. I think it's easy to jump to conclusions about fan support of Jones and race, but very difficult to defend those accusations in any meaningful way.

The only reason this thread exists is because Adam Jones has been terrible for over a year now. There are plenty of comments about Wieters and Reimold, and the reaction to each is different for many reasons. But race isn't one of them.

As I said earlier, I think the best thing we can do for all of the players is change the staff around them. Demoting might help one or more, but I personally think the problem is larger than any individual player.

[Miller192]

It sucks this thread turned into this.

[JackO]

I stand corrected on the Atkins point. Nice try on smearing me with the race taint on the Jones v. CPat comparison. Let's see: (1) both highly regarded CF Prospects, (2) Both 5-Tool talent, and (3) Both exhibit terrible plate discipline. But, you must be right, my subconscious racism is causing the comparison. I stand by my assertion that you are a troll; Your sense regarding Baltimore fans is piss poor.

Well... for some reason CPat is the O's best/second best positional player right now, who as you mentioned is a great talent with excellent tools, and who right now does seem to have figured out plate discipline -- and yet you're deriding him. What is that about? I am not calling you a racist. But I do think that people see skin color and make comparisons unconsciously.

I grew up in Baltimore. I spend a lot of time in Baltimore. I know a lot of people still in Baltimore. Baltimore as much as I love it is not an enlightened town, especially when it comes to race.

It's no Boston, for sure, and granted it's not exactly Selma, Alabama. But Baltimore's position just south of the Mason Dixon line, with its huge black population and its huge blue collar white population has made for difficult relationships across racial lines and has made for a lot of resentment among significant sectors of each community for the other.

I am not accusing the Hangout of being a breeding ground for racism. I would not be here if it was. And I should not accuse you of being racist. I was simply trying to make a point that I think some folks see Adam Jones, Corey Patterson, or Justin Upton and think they are all the same player, and I should not have done so at your expense, so I apologize for that.

But I do think, again, that some of the criticism you see here comes with racial undertone, conscious or unconscious.

[PaulFolk]

Go back and look at my previous posts here before you call me a troll. I don't write often, but when I do I pick my spots. And the racial tension I sense among Baltimore Orioles fans is something that has long bothered me.

And this is the spot you picked?

Thanks for ruining an interesting thread with this inane racism BS. If you'd like to actually discuss baseball, please do. Otherwise, perhaps it's time for you to go back to lurking.

[waroriole]

But you should think about why you think CPat and Jones are similar players. To me it seems that they have very different games and very different body types. They do have one similarity, though. They are both black.

They are quite similar. They are both extremely talented. Both fast and play good defense (CPatt is faster, but Jones has a better arm). Their problems at the plate are similar, they have no discipline. They both chase the same pitches over and over (Corey high FB, Jones down and away breaking stuff). Jones should look to Corey as an example of what happens when you have no patience at the plate, and start going up there with a better plan.

[JackO]

And this is the spot you picked?

Thanks for ruining an interesting thread with this inane racism BS. If you'd like to actually discuss baseball, please do. Otherwise, perhaps it's time for you to go back to lurking.

You're just saying that because I am white.

I joke. I joke. But fine. Let's go back to baseball. This was not about hijacking a thread. It was about airing an opinion on something that has bothered me -- and others judging by the private feedback I have received.

[Hazmat]

And I happen to believe that Adam Jones should be sent down to work on his pitch recognition right now -- as do a good number of Hangouters. I have issues when people want to have him sent down to "give him a dose of humility," as some have suggested.

To me that reads "I want that boy sent down to put him in his place because he is lazy, can't understand his coaches and full o' his uppity self."

But who knows. Maybe I am just a white guy who is too sensitive.

If that's the way you read it then I submit to you, sir, that it is you that has the issues with race. Don't project your way of thinking onto this board. Seems to me that you need to take a long hard look at yourself in the mirror and ask why you see a baseball conversation through the prism of race. For 99.9% of the OH, race never enters our minds when discussing the O's.

[JackO]

I'm not going to humor this conversation beyond this post.

I think you're a clown who doesn't realize that in today's society, one of the most offensive accusations you can make is that someone is a racist. I think it's easy to jump to conclusions about fan support of Jones and race, but very difficult to defend those accusations in any meaningful way.

The only reason this thread exists is because Adam Jones has been terrible for over a year now. There are plenty of comments about Wieters and Reimold, and the reaction to each is different for many reasons. But race isn't one of them.

As I said earlier, I think the best thing we can do for all of the players is change the staff around them. Demoting might help one or more, but I personally think the problem is larger than any individual player.

I am pretty sure name calling is against the rules here.

[Sports Guy]

Because everybody's racist obviously.

I'm half-kidding. Just trying to lighten to mood on a Friday.

Racism remains a factor in 2010, and Baltimore's history on such things is not a proud one. Satchel Paige and Jackie Robinson were subjected to brutal treatment in Charm City prior to their MLB debuts, and Frank Robinson got treated like trash at times in his Triple Crown year. Some of our parents, grandparents, etc. --or at least their contemporaries-- passed along their ignorant views...so it's a factor, though not so much in the Crowley/Murray question.

I'm a firm Terry Crowley supporter FWIW. Went to his Baseball School as an 11 & 12-y.o. and respect him as "The King of Swing" and an asset to the Orioles past, present & future.

Interesting...What were his hitting principles back then?

[NewMarketSean]

Interesting...What were his hitting principles back then?

For 11 and 12 year olds? Probably "keep your eye on the ball".