Just listened to Palmer on XM

[Mad Mark]

One year contracts for managers drive me nuts, especially when you are dealing with lower-paid managers. If there are players in the clubhouse who want to be skeptical as to whether or not a manager early in his career is running the show (and there always are those guys), making that manager go year-to-year is a sure way of embedding that skepticism in the fabric of the team.

Never let the manager enter the season without some job security and backup from the FO and take the hit on a year's salary if you have to part ways.

One-year contracts for managers also drive managers nuts, if Joe Torre's book is to be believed. He claimed that if the Yankee$ had simply given him a two year extension at the end of his last contract, he'd have managed one season and then hung 'em up. Said working without a contract that last season was miserable, and that he'd never do it again.

[Lucky Jim]

I don't know, Tony. I have been hearing this for years. I've seen numerous veterans brought in here to provide leadership and "change the culture." Conine, Millar, Surhoff, Tejada (1st time), Javy Lopez, Millwood. The only position players on this whole team who were here in 2008 are Roberts, Markakis, Scott and Jones.

If you ask me, the way you change a losing culture is by winning. But I think a fiery manager, who REALLY makes players feel uncomfortable when they are making mental mistakes or not going 100%, may help this team.

Yeah. This.

[mweb]

I don't know, Tony. I have been hearing this for years. I've seen numerous veterans brought in here to provide leadership and "change the culture." Conine, Millar, Surhoff, Tejada (1st time), Javy Lopez, Millwood. The only position players on this whole team who were here in 2008 are Roberts, Markakis, Scott and Jones.

If you ask me, the way you change a losing culture is by winning. But I think a fiery manager, who REALLY makes players feel uncomfortable when they are making mental mistakes or not going 100%, may help this team.

Yep, totally agree.

[Sports Guy]

I don't know, Tony. I have been hearing this for years. I've seen numerous veterans brought in here to provide leadership and "change the culture." Conine, Millar, Surhoff, Tejada (1st time), Javy Lopez, Millwood. The only position players on this whole team who were here in 2008 are Roberts, Markakis, Scott and Jones.

If you ask me, the way you change a losing culture is by winning. But I think a fiery manager, who REALLY makes players feel uncomfortable when they are making mental mistakes or not going 100%, may help this team.

But for this team to win and change that culture, they are likely going to have to trade out of their ML and MiL core because they aren't going to get significant FAs here.

[Guest rochester]

Altobelli didn't have to do anything. I've got nothing against the guy, but all he had to do was sit there and make the automatic moves. When Earl quit at the end of '82, all anybody heard was Earl-this and Earl-that, and the players were determined to prove they didn't need Earl to win. All Altobelli had to do was not screw things up. But that team was the dying last gasp of the Oriole Way organization, after Cal the cupboard was bare...

That's ridiculous..not screw things up...he still managed day in and day out and won a WS. I must admit though, since you were in the locker room that year (what #?) you should know that the only reason they won is because of Earl.

[Guest rochester]

Altobelli had a aging, veteran team that was on a mission from god that season. They have said in interviews that they all wanted to prove they could win without Weaver. They had team leaders galore. They really didnt need anyone to manage them. Just someone to write in the lineup.

Most players have stated he was just a laid back calm presence. He also was most of the players minor league manager for several years at Rochester.

The guy was a caretaker manager.

Nice guy but not much to do with why they won that year.

ok you answered the how Shack knew the players motivation. So what both of you are saying is that when the players are "on a mission" then that can make that much of a difference?

[Camden_yardbird]

I think the culture of the team could easily be changed by 1 or 2 big free agents who know how to win and won't take crap. It may be a culture of losers, or a the inmates running the asylum, but the fact is most of these players haven't ever seen what working to be a winner is on the mlb level.

[hobbycars]

I think the culture of the team could easily be changed by 1 or 2 big free agents who know how to win and won't take crap. It may be a culture of losers, or a the inmates running the asylum, but the fact is most of these players haven't ever seen what working to be a winner is on the mlb level.

I agree with this.

[clarence]

So what can we get for Markakis and BRob? I'd be all for it. I agree with Tony that we need serious change.

(cue Cindy and her "no, no, no's")

[hobbycars]

I think a losing culture breeds this type of "inmates running the asylum" kind of thing. I've heard some things about Jones, Roberts and even Markakis and I've always wondered if they weren't constantly losing would they have a better attitude?

Continual losing can not be good for anyone. Roberts and Markakis have been on losing teams their entire major league careers. Tejada was burned out when he left because he was just burnt our from losing.

As good as Roberts (when healthy) and Markakis are, they are not team leader guys and they have no experience at winning.

I'm a big believer that you should surround your young players with solid veterans who have won. The Orioles have too many guys with the same laid back personality and I think it was hard for Trembley to hold their feet to the fire because I'm not sure he ever truly felt he could be himself with his clubs for fear of "losing the clubhouse."

Wieters is another guy who's not going to inspire others. It's not really his style. Matusz is too new and hasn't done enough at the big level. Jones is a good guy overall but he's got his own rumors floating around about his on and off field habits.

This team needs a transfusion. MacPhail is going to have to trade off major pieces of his "core" for no other reason then to change the culture.

The Orioles have a culture of losing. Their minor league teams over the years minus a few good teams have pretty much lost more than they won, and the big league team is going about completing it's 13 straight year of losing.

MacPhail has to realize his core group needs a tranfusion of different personalities. Obviously talent is the main ingrediant, but if he keeps the current group, he's going to need a well respected high energy type of manager to lead it.

Great post. I couldn't agree more.

[MemorialStadKid]

I think a losing culture breeds this type of "inmates running the asylum" kind of thing. I've heard some things about Jones, Roberts and even Markakis and I've always wondered if they weren't constantly losing would they have a better attitude?

Continual losing can not be good for anyone. Roberts and Markakis have been on losing teams their entire major league careers. Tejada was burned out when he left because he was just burnt our from losing.

As good as Roberts (when healthy) and Markakis are, they are not team leader guys and they have no experience at winning.

I'm a big believer that you should surround your young players with solid veterans who have won. The Orioles have too many guys with the same laid back personality and I think it was hard for Trembley to hold their feet to the fire because I'm not sure he ever truly felt he could be himself with his clubs for fear of "losing the clubhouse."

Wieters is another guy who's not going to inspire others. It's not really his style. Matusz is too new and hasn't done enough at the big level. Jones is a good guy overall but he's got his own rumors floating around about his on and off field habits.

This team needs a transfusion. MacPhail is going to have to trade off major pieces of his "core" for no other reason then to change the culture.

The Orioles have a culture of losing. Their minor league teams over the years minus a few good teams have pretty much lost more than they won, and the big league team is going about completing it's 13 straight year of losing.

Wow, excellent post.

How many of us have been saying the exact same thing for the last few years?

[Old#5fan]

I agree with this.

I agree and have espoused this for a while now which is why I was unhappy with MacPhails off-season performance (or lack thereof). A lot of posters thought I was blowing smoke and the same with the culture of losing observation which I also espoused needs to be broken. I guess now some of the doubters will finally start believing this.

[Gurgi]

ok you answered the how Shack knew the players motivation. So what both of you are saying is that when the players are "on a mission" then that can make that much of a difference?

I honestly have watched Rick Dempsey in an interview say this exact stuff. He talked good about Altobelli but he pretty much said they wanted to prove they could win without Weaver. Rick also says Weaver was the best manager they ever had. I think they all realize in hindsight Weaver was a demi-god.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Altobelli didn't have to do anything. I've got nothing against the guy, but all he had to do was sit there and make the automatic moves. When Earl quit at the end of '82, all anybody heard was Earl-this and Earl-that, and the players were determined to prove they didn't need Earl to win. All Altobelli had to do was not screw things up. But that team was the dying last gasp of the Oriole Way organization, after Cal the cupboard was bare...

Yep, I agree with this. I was a teenager that summer, but I felt like I could have made the same moves as Altobelli - he had all of Earl's old players, and used them in the exact roles Weaver had spent years establishing.

[Gurgi]

Yep, I agree with this. I was a teenager that summer, but I felt like I could have made the same moves as Altobelli - he had all of Earl's old players, and used them in the exact roles Weaver had spent years establishing.

Smart enough to realize how close the team was to a championship. He didnt screw up. Not like the Ravens the year after they won a superbowl. Had to be too smart for their own good and dump a superbowl winning quarterback.