Just listened to Palmer on XM

[El Gordo]

Who are the inmates running the asylum I wonder?

I got the sense he was speaking generally. In the context that he doesn't think the team is in good baseball shape, they need to be working on the fundamentals more, and they are not prepping seriously for the games. He talked a lot about the need to take regular IF and how the players didn't want to do it etc. The expression he used and Kennedy reiterated was they didn't want to take balls of the bat. I get the feeling DT trusted the players to do their due diligence and they didn't...:scratchchinhmm:

[DrungoHazewood]

Who are the inmates running the asylum I wonder?

If I had to guess I'd say it's 25 inmates running 25 little, personal asylums.

[Slappy]

Walter Alston was definitely a nice guy. HOFer, managed the Dodgers forever.

Wilbert Robinson, also HOFer. Once yelled at the team for making too much noise during a rally because they were going to wake up another player during his nap.

Dick Howser. .544 winning %. 2 pennants, 2 WS titles in eight years. Nice guy.

Tommy Lasorda. I'd assume a guy with a regular gig on The Baseball Bunch was a nice guy. Dodgers seem to be a recurring theme here.

Frank Selee was kind of a laid-back guy, known for clean baseball in a dirty era. His teams were more successful than the old NL O's.

Johnny Oates is still the only manager to take the Rangers to the postseason in 38 years.

I think there are probably almost as many nice managers as there are Earl Weavers and Billy Martins.

Credit where due. Is there any related theme we can apply? It seems to me a lot of these guys had success with veteran teams, Torre included. Perhaps it is the nice guy with young players combination someone mentioned earlier that is toxic?

[TGO]

If I had to guess I'd say it's 25 inmates running 25 little, personal asylums.

This is what I was thinking; it's most likely just a bunch of guys looking out for #1 (maybe not all 25 but enough that the rest are discouraged) rather than any outright disrespect or insubordination.

[Old#5fan]

One thing I saw and never liked and wished Trembley had stopped was that stupid shaving cream pie thing when a player was being interviewed. What if some player had slipped and fell or pulled a hamstring doing this silly crap?

It seemed especially irritating and unprofessional to do this and in particular when the team had so few wins to begin with.

[SoBo]

If I had to guess I'd say it's 25 inmates running 25 little, personal asylums.

Bingo, it probably didn't help that DT basically worked on successive one year contracts. DT has basically been a lame duck since he took the job. The next few weeks should be kinda interesting. Sounds like Samuel is a bit of a hardass. If nothing else it'll be interesting.

[El Gordo]

This is what I was thinking; it's most likely just a bunch of guys looking out for #1 (maybe not all 25 but enough that the rest are discouraged) rather than any outright disrespect or insubordination.

He also pointed out that there were no team leaders in the clubhouse.

[Birds of B'more]

Agree with the "too nice" sentiment. A leader who is too nice is almost always disrespected and rarely gets the maximum out of his charges. Know any good managers, football coaches, businessmen, or generals who is known as being a "nice guy"? I don't.

And from the football side.

How many more do we need before they are no longer exceptions?

[Slappy]

And from the football side.

How many more do we need before they are no longer exceptions?

None, I concede the point, although in both sports I do believe the level of professionalism from the players could dictate the personality of manager needed. Nothing to prove that thesis with, though.

[Nick The Stick]

Agree with the "too nice" sentiment. A leader who is too nice is almost always disrespected and rarely gets the maximum out of his charges. Know any good managers, football coaches, businessmen, or generals who is known as being a "nice guy"? I don't.

I put Tony Dungy before reaching the end of the thread. Haha. Yeah...

[soxhotcorner14]

He spoke to a coach at ST and he asked what kind of club is this going to be and the coach said "if anybody worked hard it would stick out like a sore thumb."

Am I the only one that doesn't understand what this means? Can you elaborate for this blone bald guy?

[Nigel Tufnel]

One thing I saw and never liked and wished Trembley had stopped was that stupid shaving cream pie thing when a player was being interviewed. What if some player had slipped and fell or pulled a hamstring doing this silly crap?

It seemed especially irritating and unprofessional to do this and in particular when the team had so few wins to begin with.

Or what if some small child got shaving cream in his eye? Oh, the humanity!

[hatepaste]

This is the thing that strikes me about Palmer: He always is the first to say things like, "this is the way it should be done." etc etc. But he never puts himself out there to manage or coach.

He could easily do it, what team would not want someone like Jim Palmer to be their manager?

Sometimes Palmer strikes me as a guy who finds it easy to lob jabs from the safety of the pressbox but wouldn't know what to do if he were ever in a situation to act on his beliefs.

But still, if that is how he sees things, then that is how he sees things.

It's the difference between working 80-90 nights a year and 162 plus.

He's got a cushy job and likes it, nothing wrong with that.

[bluedog]

I don't get that vibe at all. He's someone that played here during all the glory years, the only Oriole with all 3 rings....IIRC, he never played on a losing team. He's a brilliant baseball mind.

That said, why would he want to coach this sorry sack team? It's not exactly a great comparison, but why would a great baseball manager like La Russa or Torre or someone of that ilk ever step in and try to manage this team in its current state?

You said it yourself, what team wouldn't like Jim Palmer as their manager? If that's the case, why would he settle for a perennial cellar dweller in roughest division in baseball?

Palmer is a winner...winners aren't really interested in associating with losers.

Don't agree with this logic at all. To whit:

Many people who are "winners" have a driving need to try and fix things that are broken. This is how they became winners in the first place. The vast majority of sporting greats don't just pop out of the womb as "winners" complete with Cy Young awards and World Series rings.

They start out having to overcome a whole host of obstacles on their way to success. In most cases they will face great adversity (Lance Armstrong, John Elway, Michael Jordan) before they achieve ultimate success and achieve their ultimate goals.

Palmer had to work VERY hard to become a Hall of Fame pitcher and to earn those three rings. He didn't choose to become an Oriole because they had a winning culture and he wanted to play here - he got lucky in which team drafted and developed him. I think he would have still been a "winner" even if he'd been on a losing team - just because he's that kind of guy.

And its very clear that many players develop strong ties of loyalty to their "hometown" or original clubs - if they are the right kind of player. Some guys are only interested in money (ARod) or winning RIGHT NOW (Teix, Sabathia), but there are other guys who are really loyal to the city and organization that gave them their first chance (Lebron James assuming he stays in Cleveland).

Palmer seems like the kind of guy who fits in the last category. Of course it pains him greatly to see the O's struggle the way they have for over a decade, but to think he's unwilling to associate with the team because they are "losers" doesn't work for me.

I believe that Palmer wants the O's to reclaim their status as one of the best franchises in pro sports. I also believe that Palmer (who is one of the most intelligent people in sports broadcasting today) would love to play a role in helping the O's turn things around. As great as it is to be a winner on a winning team, its far, far more rewarding to take a losing team and turn it into a winner AND to be seen as one of the primary architects of that transformation.

To me, Palmer is the kind of guy who thrives on challenges. It won't surprise me in the least if the O's look at bringing him on board as a manager.

[hatepaste]

One thing I saw and never liked and wished Trembley had stopped was that stupid shaving cream pie thing when a player was being interviewed. What if some player had slipped and fell or pulled a hamstring doing this silly crap?

It seemed especially irritating and unprofessional to do this and in particular when the team had so few wins to begin with.

That's your biggest gripe about the past 3 years? Have you watched any games?