Who knows if this is true or not...

[Old#5fan]

Two comments.

1) MacPhail has had three years... three freakin' years of miserable on-field performance... to figure out what's wrong and make some moves to change it. He had the authority -- the mandate -- to come in and turn things around. He basically announced during the 07-08 offseason that things were worse than he had believed, so the fact that there were deep systemic flaws has been known for at least two and a half years. Yet the moves we have seen since then -- the swapping of the Stockstills, the hirings of Klentak and McDaniel, some minor shuffling in the minor league staffs -- look more like tweaking the machine than a true overhaul.

I've been a big supporter of MacPhail. I chuckled at the deliberate way he approached trades. I swallowed the awfulness of 08 and 09 under the belief that progress was being made and the organization was being turned around. The idea that the problems are still being debated, much less corrected, makes me furious.

It's called leadership, and I don't see any manifest here.

2) There is a lot of dissonance in Jordan if we are to believe that he has problems with the development side. He had the #3 overall pick in the draft 10 days ago, and a choice between a near-finished NCAA SS and a higher-ceiling HS kid who will need to be developed. If you don't believe that your development guys know what they're doing, why would you choose the high-ceiling HS kid?

STOP, JUST STOP! With a post like this you are just making too much sense. If anyone from the Warehouse would happen to read it, it would just blow their minds or whatever part of a mind they have, which at this point is highly questionable!

[Stotle]

Old habits die hard.

Haha. My first showcase I went out there and did the same. 20 minutes into it I told myself, "this is stupid" and I stood back and just took a couple of notes of running form (collecting all the times at the end from the showcase company).

[LookinUp]

Do you believe that the Orioles have the people in place to properly develop Machado?

Do you believe Machado is in any way comparable to Pope, Henson, Avery, Adams, Hudson or any of the other position players we've discussed? (seriously asking)

He's played and excelled against top HS competition, including int'l. His numbers, including OBP, are awesome. I know he's in high school and he might not stick at SS, but he doesn't seem very raw to me.

I think we're talking about two totally different categories of player. At least, I hope we are.

[Sports Guy]

Do you believe Machado is in any way comparable to Pope, Henson, Avery, Adams, Hudson or any of the other position players we've discussed? (seriously asking)

He's played and excelled against top HS competition, including int'l. His numbers, including OBP, are awesome. I know he's in high school and he might not stick at SS, but he doesn't seem very raw to me.

I think we're talking about two totally different categories of player. At least, I hope we are.

I agree with you...I am not trying to say Machado is a project.

But he is still a HS kid that needs to be developed.

[LookinUp]

When things go to hell, people start pointing fingers at each other. So, no surprise that there are internal rifts. I don't know which of these 2 sides has the most merit to their claims. All I know is that last year people were mostly happy with Jordan and mostly happy with how kid-P's looked when they came up. Now, suddenly, some people are unhappy with both. Amazing how losing makes people do a 180.

Don't misunderstand, I am not saying that both sides of this rift are wrong. I'm saying that I have no way to know. I'm also saying that the folks who are saying, "See!!!!" were not saying that last year when they said Jordon was fine and when the team benefited from Nolan and BB coming up, and later on Matusz.

Just having internal divisions is not necessarily terrible. For example, both Earl Weaver and "superscout" Jim Russo were great at their jobs. But if one of them said "up", the other one would say "down". However, the team was good and played great, so nobody cared about that (except Russo and Weaver).

I think internal divisions and creative tension are good. In fact, the airing of all of this publicly is probably good. It hopefully reflects some form of expectations being placed on the people running this franchise. It may be coming from PA or AM...I really don't care.

The disappointing part is that this apparently didn't happen three years ago. I obviously don't know that for a fact...but if 2010 is the end of internal Andy's evaluation period, that's just too painfully slow for my taste, though still a welcome development.

Better late than never, I guess, but what does this say about other operational developments in the organization?

[LookinUp]

I agree with you...I am not trying to say Machado is a project.

But he is still a HS kid that needs to be developed.

Yeah, no doubt. He's somewhere in between Wieters and Avery...perhaps close to a better Snyder, just with more positional value.

I guess I'm just trying to say that I don't think he's a boom or bust pick. I think his talent level is high enough that he's a boom or slightly less than OK pick, with a Rowell-like collapse VERY unlikely. That's in comparison to a Colon, who is likely to be a good or ok pick...in other words, a higher - but not dramatically - floor, with a dramatically lower ceiling.

[Arthur_Bryant]

Yeah, no doubt. He's somewhere in between Wieters and Avery...perhaps close to a better Snyder, just with more positional value.

I guess I'm just trying to say that I don't think he's a boom or bust pick. I think his talent level is high enough that he's a boom or slightly less than OK pick, with a Rowell-like collapse VERY unlikely. That's in comparison to a Colon, who is likely to be a good or ok pick...in other words, a higher - but not dramatically - floor, with a dramatically lower ceiling.

I'll say it now: I expect to be watching Christian Colon play a pretty good SS for the Royals next season, and it's going to take me a long time to get over the fact that he isn't in an O's uniform.

[Sports Guy]

Yeah, no doubt. He's somewhere in between Wieters and Avery...perhaps close to a better Snyder, just with more positional value.

I guess I'm just trying to say that I don't think he's a boom or bust pick. I think his talent level is high enough that he's a boom or slightly less than OK pick, with a Rowell-like collapse VERY unlikely. That's in comparison to a Colon, who is likely to be a good or ok pick...in other words, a higher - but not dramatically - floor, with a dramatically lower ceiling.

I don't see how Colon has a dramatically lower ceiling.

That's a stretch IMO.

[RShack]

The disappointing part is that this apparently didn't happen three years ago. I obviously don't know that for a fact...but...

Well, pause right there. Not to pick on you, because you're a reasonable guy, but that's a perfect example of what's going on now with the Wheel of Blame. People are saying stuff like that (only moreso) without even knowing the truth, and without even caring what the truth is. How many of the MiL coaches are the same since AM got here? You gotta know that before you can say they're the same old bunch.

And how much of this is due to them anyway? Look, the guys on the ML roster who are under-performing are all guys who were on the ML team last year and did better than they are now. So, why are people targeting the MiL coaches? Do you think they kidnapped all the ML guys who are under-performing, and spent the winter teaching them to get worse?

Back when everybody thought the answer was trades, trades, trades, I was the guy saying that the org-development part of the org mattered more. So, it's not like I think it doesn't matter. And I have no idea how fixed that issue is. But what people are saying now is just goofy...

[Old#5fan]

I would like to know why the Orioles didn't draft that kid who now plays LF for the Tigers in 2006? That kid has something like 9 homers and 36 rbi's bats left and hammered the ball against the Nats yesterday. How come we miss drafting people like that and instead draft losers like Rowell?

[LookinUp]

Well, pause right there. Not to pick on you, because you're a reasonable guy, but that's a perfect example of what's going on now with the Wheel of Blame. People are saying stuff like that (only moreso) without even knowing the truth, and without even caring what the truth is. How many of the MiL coaches are the same since AM got here? You gotta know that before you can say they're the same old bunch.

And how much of this is due to them anyway? Look, the guys on the ML roster who are under-performing are all guys who were on the ML team last year and did better than they are now. So, why are people targeting the MiL coaches? Do you think they kidnapped all the ML guys who are under-performing, and spent the winter teaching them to get worse?

Back when everybody thought the answer was trades, trades, trades, I was the guy saying that the org-development part of the org mattered more. So, it's not like I think it doesn't matter. And I have no idea how fixed that issue is. But what people are saying now is just goofy...

I think there's been a slow roll on the changes in organizational development. Our hitting instructor has been around for a long time though, but some coaching changes have definitely occurred.

FWIW, I actually do think that Jordan has done a relatively poor job of targeting hitters, but I don't know why or what I'd do much differently. Avery (as tools) and Hoes (as a guy with a good approach) are defensible. Givens...not so much based on what I've heard from many.

What's frustrating is that we hear about guys like Rutledge this year or the hitter from South Carolina the year Smoak also came out, and we never seem to go after them (e.g., relatively advanced college hitters w/o incredible ceiling, but with a good floor). On the other hand, we seem to draft pitchers like that all the time (Zagone is the first who comes to mind...maybe Bascom?).

IDK...but this is why creative tension is so important. Respectful disagreement in an organization is a great thing, provided an individual's authority isn't undermined.

We're left to wonder whether this disagreement has been provided in the organizational structure (or are/were the O's stove piped?), ignored, acted upon with subsequent failure by player development or just an excuse for overall poor performance.

[Sports Guy]

Well, pause right there. Not to pick on you, because you're a reasonable guy, but that's a perfect example of what's going on now with the Wheel of Blame. People are saying stuff like that (only moreso) without even knowing the truth, and without even caring what the truth is. How many of the MiL coaches are the same since AM got here? You gotta know that before you can say they're the same old bunch.

And how much of this is due to them anyway? Look, the guys on the ML roster who are under-performing are all guys who were on the ML team last year and did better than they are now. So, why are people targeting the MiL coaches? Do you think they kidnapped all the ML guys who are under-performing, and spent the winter teaching them to get worse?

Back when everybody thought the answer was trades, trades, trades, I was the guy saying that the org-development part of the org mattered more. So, it's not like I think it doesn't matter. And I have no idea how fixed that issue is. But what people are saying now is just goofy...

At what point do results actually matter to you?

[LookinUp]

I don't see how Colon has a dramatically lower ceiling.

That's a stretch IMO.

It's not a knock on Colon, but he's not a guy who could hit 25 HR for several years. Machado COULD (not saying will) be a Colon type, with much better power and even a better overall hit tool.

[RShack]

At what point do results actually matter to you?

This is like the Salem witch trials.

What did you think the team record was gonna be this year, back before everything went to hell?

[Sports Guy]

This is like the Salem witch trials.

What did you think the team record was gonna be this year, back before everything went to hell?

500 record....

But I ask again, mr question dodger...When do results matter?

You complain that people don't know what so and so is doing and yet, we want them fired.

Well let me ask you this...The Orioles aren't developing hitters well. Who should we actually blame on this? Don't you feel if that is a problem and has been a CONSISTENT PROBLEM FOR YEARS, that something needs to change?