MacPhail's FA signing history with the O's

[helloharv]

Crazysilver -thanks for your response

I am a little confused as to why I asked direct questions to wildcard and BTerp...and they haven't responded

[hoosiers]

I know all you want to do is make excuses for him and act as if he is some special talent as a GM but the bottom line is he has been a mediocre at best GM for years now..not just his stint in Baltimore. You want to pat him on the back for not getting into an Aaron Rowand contract..Fine, good for you..Him not being a total moron is a trait that you think is good..To me, its one I expect and feel he deserves no credit for.

My primary purpose here is to try to understand AM's moves and explain why the alternatives suggested here are usually weaker relative to the path chosen. That has been my primary motivation since participating actively on this sitey for nearly 10 years.

While I do believe AM espouses many of the qualities in a GM that I look for (top trades, expansion of the draft/international scouting budgets, avoiding costly mistake contracts), I do not hold him (nor his predecessors) in the uber-esteemed light that you repeatedly ascribe (not sure about your obsession with my posts anyway considering the "I'm a 2 year old" negative rep you spread my way saying my posts are worthless!). As I posted last year multiple times, despite improving many things in our organization, our GM was not hired on a five or six or seven year plan so things need to get better much sooner than later.

For instance, I have done nothing to support the weaker signings by AM in this thread and, in fact, said the Atkins signing was a poor one. All I posted was for others here to have some perspective regarding the poor contracts of our front office because these mistake contracts are significantly fewer than AM's predecessors and, I believe, much fewer than other organizations in baseball. In my request that others show some perspective, you have (per usual) taken a big leap in logic that I am "defending" the poor signings of our GM which is not true at all.

[wildcard]

Besides our draft picks(which every GM does to be part of their teams future) What specfic players did Andy bring in during this rebuilding effort that are a major part of our future?

Sorry harv. I though RZNJ gave a pretty good answer. I didn't think I needed to respond also.

Basically you qualify your question to exclude the draft. I don't see that as fair. Matusz is the future ace of the Orioles. Getting an ace is no small matter.

Sometimes the philosophy of sticking to a plan is as important as the players that are acquired. Look as what MacPhail as done.

Starters - Only Guthrie was in the rotation. Matusz, Arrieta, Bergy, Tillman, Britton all had to be developed. If the O's had traded them. Blew up their arms. Or in some way not allowed them to develop, MacPhail would be to blame. Now he will get the credit for the base that is the backbone of what the O's have a very good chance of riding to a winning record.

Pen -

Signed Koji. And re-signed him.

Stuck with Johnson through hard times.

Signed Gonzo. Paid too much but he is a asset to the pen.

Pursuing Gregg hard. If he misses I expect he will find another replacement

Developed Hernandez which allowed him to be a major piece is a trade for a starting 3B.

Traded for VandenHurk.

Signed Ohman and traded him for Vandy.

Positions

Extended Roberts who is the catalyst for the offense.

Traded for a major league SS in Hardy.

Traded for a 30 HR 3B in Reynolds.

Signed Wieters and developed him. I know he didn't draft him but give credit where it is due.

Extended Markakis.

Traded for Jones.

Is in the process of getting Reimold back to where he was is 2009. He sent Brady to work with him in Norfork and is continuing that this winter.

Traded for Pie.

Stuck with a streaky Scott as he has matured into a middle of the order hitter.

Upgraded the way the team studies opposing pitchers and hitters by acquiring a video playback system for the clubhouse.

Straighten out a long time problem with the Spring Training facility.

Has formed what looks like a good relationship with his new experienced manager Buck Showalter inspite of many rumored problems that might have been obstacles.

I am sure there are many more but that is off the top of my head.

[JTrea81]

Sorry harv. I though RZNJ gave a pretty good answer. I didn't think I needed to respond also.

Basically you qualify your question to exclude the draft. I don't see that as fair. Matusz is the future ace of the Orioles. Getting an ace is no small matter.

Sometimes the philosophy of sticking to a plan is as important as the players that are acquired. Look as what MacPhail as done.

Starters - Only Guthrie was in the rotation. Matusz, Arrieta, Bergy, Tillman, Britton all had to be developed. If the O's had traded them. Blew up their arms. Or in some way not allowed them to develop, MacPhail would be to blame. Now he will get the credit for the base that is the backbone of what the O's have a very good chance of riding to a winning record.

And if Tillman and Arrieta fail to live up to the hype he will have regretted not traded them sooner. As it is Tillman has lost a lot of his prospect luster in one season. Teams didn't want him or Arrieta as much as they wanted David Hernandez who was already in the system before MacPhail arrived.

Pen -

Signed Koji. And re-signed him. - as a starter, not as a reliever. Koji should have never been in the rotation to begin with. Not a LT option as well.

Stuck with Johnson through hard times. - JJ is one of those guys that should be traded as he's been injury prone and his K:BB ratio is not stellar. He's overrated a lot and is quite replaceable.

Signed Gonzo. Paid too much but he is a asset to the pen. - and gave up a 2nd round pick for him to watch him only pitch a month or so. He likely won't be the closer next season. Gregg, Soriano and Valverde were all better options than Gonzalez.

Pursuing Gregg hard. If he misses I expect he will find another replacement - Even if he signs Gregg he won't be a LT option and he'll be expensive taking resources away from more vital areas such as SP and position players.

Developed Hernandez which allowed him to be a major piece is a trade for a starting 3B. - And now we've used our best trade chip of the offseason for a trade when a FA option that might be better is still out there.

Traded for VandenHurk. - fringe bullpen guy or swingman. He's depth but hardly a cornerstone.

Signed Ohman and traded him for Vandy - see above

Positions

Extended Roberts who is the catalyst for the offense. - and we'll have wasted 2 years of that deal, likely Roberts best prime years. With the back injury looming and Roberts likely declining, that contract may not look so friendly after next season. Right now it looks like a PR move in an offseason where they did next to nothing after failing to land Tex

Traded for a major league SS in Hardy. - who is injury prone and could be gone after 2011.

Traded for a 30 HR 3B in Reynolds. - a possible bounceback candidate but hardly a definite in the lineup. And we used likely our best chip to get him when we had other holes with less attractive FA options available.

Signed Wieters and developed him. I know he didn't draft him but give credit where it is due. - Wieters was already developed, and Peter Angelos had to step in to get the deal done because MacPhail scuttled the orginal deal with Boras that Duquette had set up. AM was ready to let him walk.

Extended Markakis. - Wasted 2 soon to be 3 years of that extension thus far

Traded for Jones. - still has holes in his game and is a question mark.

Is in the process of getting Reimold back to where he was is 2009. He sent Brady to work with him in Norfork and is continuing that this winter. - MacPhail would have traded Reimold likely if it hadn't been for Anderson intervening. Reimold working with Anderson was not his doing. John Stockstill set that up.

Traded for Pie. - who is nothing more than a 4th OFer at best

Stuck with a streaky Scott as he has matured into a middle of the order hitter. Scott is gone after 2012.

Upgraded the way the team studies opposing pitchers and hitters by acquiring a video playback system for the clubhouse. - this you can give him credit for and it was a long awaited addition.

Straighten out a long time problem with the Spring Training facility. - MLB pressuring the O's had something to do with this as well as teams complained about both the ML and minor league facilities. MacPhail should get some credit, but not all.

Has formed what looks like a good relation with his new experienced manager Buck Showalter inspite of many rumored problems that might have been obstacles. - Showalter was not his first choice, and I think they are just being professional at this point...

I am sure there are many more but that is off the top of my head.

See the bolded above.

[Crazysilver03]

Basically you qualify your question to exclude the draft. I don't see that as fair. Matusz is the future ace of the Orioles. Getting an ace is no small matter.

I don't see how leaving the draft out is unfair.

At #4 overall, I would hope if we are drafting a pitcher that it is a stud. Of course, we know that the #5 pick the following year didn't go as well.

MacPhail should have had no control over what Jordan did, so it really shouldn't be a point in his favor (or not).

[JTrea81]

Also this hit me like a ton of bricks while I was digging for other info. I'm surprised I never saw it sooner as it would have saved me a lot of grief. Read it for yourself and prepared to be dismayed:

"We were regarded as the village idiot for giving Matt Wieters a $6 million signing bonus as opposed to a $4 million signing bonus," MacPhail said, "but that's the only access we're going to have to what potentially can be premium-type players. "We have a nice core of young players coming up. But we still have a lot of work to do."

MacPhail does not intend to get a premium player via FA, international signings, or via trade at all IMO. The draft is the only way he sees getting premium talent.

And people thought they were idiots for giving Wieters $6 million? Who? People thought the Pirates were idiots for passing on him, but I've never heard anybody say that was a stupid pick and contract.

It explains so much about MacPhail's mentality IMO...

He needs to go after this season.

[Crazysilver03]

See the bolded above.

JJ is one of those guys that should be traded as he's been injury prone and his K:BB ratio is not stellar. He's overrated a lot and is quite replaceable.

I always love these lines. Johnson is no good, so we should trade him. Trade him for what? If we realize he has a poor K:BB, I highly doubt other GMs miss that fact. And how is he really injury prone?

And now we've used our best trade chip of the offseason for a trade when a FA option that might be better is still out there.

Why do you think adding Beltre is realistic? 3B was arguably one of our biggest areas of need and MacPhail took care of it.

Scott is gone after 2012.

What evidence do you have for this? Unless he is traded, I can see him sticking around after 2012.

[JTrea81]

I always love these lines. Johnson is no good, so we should trade him. Trade him for what? If we realize he has a poor K:BB, I highly doubt other GMs miss that fact. And how is he really injury prone?

How is he injury prone? He's had constant shoulder issues. And I'm not saying you'd get a ton back for him, but he's going to get expensive for what he actually provides and some other team might want him back in a package.

Why do you think adding Beltre is realistic? 3B was arguably one of our biggest areas of need and MacPhail took care of it.

Look at his market now. You can get him for 5/75-80 most likely. Hernandez then could have been used to upgrade elsewhere.

What evidence do you have for this? Unless he is traded, I can see him sticking around after 2012.

He'll be 34 and likely we won't want to keep him. He could have had his career year last year at 32. For a sure thing Scott has been streaky in the past and you don't really know what you'll get in 2011.

[Crazysilver03]

Look at his market now. You can get him for 5/75-80 most likely. Hernandez then could have been used to upgrade elsewhere.

.

You still don't address the part about how adding Beltre is realistic. If he doesn't want to come here he won't be coming here.

[wildcard]

I don't see how leaving the draft out is unfair.

At #4 overall, I would hope if we are drafting a pitcher that it is a stud. Of course, we know that the #5 pick the following year didn't go as well.

MacPhail should have had no control over what Jordan did, so it really shouldn't be a point in his favor (or not).

The GM has veto power over everyone who works for him IMO.

I see no reason to exclude the drafting and development of Matusz from MacPhial accomplishment.

[JTrea81]

You still don't address the part about how adding Beltre is realistic. If he doesn't want to come here he won't be coming here.

If he wants money he'll come here. The Angels are the only team in on him right now and they aren't going above 5/70.

But it's a moot point now because there is no spot for him. The Orioles chose to spend Hernandez for Reynolds and now they don't have him to trade for anything else where FA won't provide a good option. That's the decision they made.

[Crazysilver03]

The GM has veto power over everyone who works for him IMO.

I see no reason to exclude the drafting and development of Matusz from MacPhial accomplishment.

Except that MacPhail didn't draft, nor develop Matusz.

If you give MacPhail credit for drafting Matusz, then he should get blasted for drafting Hobgood.

[JTrea81]

Except that MacPhail didn't draft, nor develop Matusz.

If you give MacPhail credit for drafting Matusz, then he should get blasted for drafting Hobgood.

And how much developing did Matusz need anyway? The guy was polished just like Wieters coming out of college. He was on the fast track to the majors the minute he signed.

I'll give AM credit for bringing in Griffin though. To me that is one of the best moves of his tenure.

[wildcard]

See the bolded above.

I know you are active O's fan but from this post I can't really figure out why. You must be frustrated as heck. With your perception of where the O's are and where their headed, it must be enough to almost make you ill.

I posted a glass full answer to where the O's are and where they are headed. Your response was not even a glass half empty response. It is basic the glass is empty response. With that kind of feeling about the O's, I pity you as a fan.

It must be a terrible place to be.

[JTrea81]

I know you are active O's fan but from this post I can't really figure out why. You must be frustrated as heck. With your perception of where the O's are and where their headed, it must be enough to almost make you ill.

I posted a glass full answer to where the O's are and where they are headed. Your response was not even a glass half empty response. It is basic the glass is empty response. With that kind of feeling about the O's, I pity you as a fan.

It must be a terrible place to be.

It sucks, but it is also closer to reality. I suspect there will be some bright spots, but there are going to be disappointments as well, and more of them than you think IMO. This organization is still not committed to using all the resources they can or all the methods they can to win. They have tunnel vision on one plan and if it fails everything that we've been waiting for since 2007 fails with it with no backup or alternative and yet they aren't willing to do what is neccessary to make sure that plan does not fail. It's basically hoping and praying.

MacPhail's comment about the draft speaks volumes. The fact that he's made up his mind that the draft is the only way the Orioles will acquire premium talent basically tells you why he's such a failure at acquiring that talent via other avenues IMO.