Who is a better defensive SS than Miggy?

[Migrant Redbird]

Wonder how it is weighted. The last two years I don't think anyone can say that Miggy is above-average defensively in terms of range. I think Miggy is great on balls he gets to, but he has bad range.

How Miggy was in 2003-2005, the years covered in the Fielding Bible, isn't necessarily indicative of how he was in 2006 and 2007. The same is true of Jack Wilson, of course. Jack continues to get praise from the media and lots of ESPN web gem coverage, but that doesn't mean that his defense hasn't slipped since the bible was published.

[Spoonless]

I wouldn't be suprised to see a more energetic, better defensive Miguel Tejada if he is traded. I think he's really worn down from playing here. Of course, it's one of those things that'll probably make the O's look stupid for getting rid of him.

[os1971]

Wonder how it is weighted. The last two years I don't think anyone can say that Miggy is above-average defensively in terms of range. I think Miggy is great on balls he gets to, but he has bad range.

I would love to know exactly how zone ratings work.

Zone Rating (ZR) measures performance inside a defined zone. By definition it is not a good measure of range. In Zone rating, plays made outside of the zone are not considered/or marginalized. In Zone rating, players with good range are actually penalized.

For this reason, Zone Rating was revised into two separate components. Revised Zone Rating (RZR) and plays made Outside of Zone (OOZ). Total number of plays plays made outside of zone as a percentage of total plays will provide a better indication of "range" than Zone Rating or RZR will.

RZR and OOZ can be found at www.thehardballtimes.com under the stats section. They also have some great articles on defense if you want to do more research.

Zone Ratings do not measure play complexity (how hard ball was hit, angle etc.) and also do not consider Flyballs or other factors such as DP conversions/ball handling etc.

To complicate matters further, the two companies that provide Zone Ratings actually have separate zones resulting in noticable variations. This may be a particularly evident at third base where the zone is small, balls are hit harder and a few inches may mean the difference between an in zone or out of zone play.

Ultimate Zone Rating (UZR) is a more comprehensive statistic, but is perhaps a story for another day.

Basically, I'm not a big proponent of Zone Ratings in general but more of a proponent of Play-By-Play systems like those provided in the aforementioned Fielding Bible.

[George]

I am curious about a defensive stat comparison between Mike Bordick and Miguel Tejada. Can anyone do this easily?

I don't think much of fielding percentage as an indicator of defensive skill. Official scorers often fail to call defensive mistakes of omission as errors. Scorers never rule an error on a botched double play, no matter how routine it should have been for a major league infielder.

[Sports Guy]

Isn't the answer to this question...EVERYONE?

[os1971]

Isn't the answer to this question...EVERYONE?

I dont know, he might give the three legged Pig a run for his money.

[Sports Guy]

I dont know, he might give the three legged Pig a run for his money.

I bolded that for you....You forget that stress that!

[El Gordo]

ARod is a better shortstop. Maybe we can get him to sign here on a Cal Town discount!

ARod was a better SS. I wouldn't be so sure now, he's far from the best 3B.

[Mackus]

Watch Miggy day in and day out and tell me has has decent range at SS, which is what that stat is saying. He doesn't. He can't get to a lot of balls that he should be getting too and so I will say again, any stat that has his range as average to above average holds no weight in my opinion.

I watch Miggy day in and day out, and I'm telling you he has decent range at SS.

He's probably a bit below average in the range department, but its not terrible. He positions himself more towards the hole, which limits his ability to get to balls up the middle. He does this because his arm strength allows him to make plays in the hole that most SS would eat or throw late. He gets outs on fewer balls up the middle than most SS, but he gets outs on far more balls in the hole than most SS do.

[Sports Guy]

I watch Miggy day in and day out, and I'm telling you he has decent range at SS.

He's probably a bit below average in the range department, but its not terrible. He positions himself more towards the hole, which limits his ability to get to balls up the middle. He does this because his arm strength allows him to make plays in the hole that most SS would eat or throw late. He gets outs on fewer balls up the middle than most SS, but he gets outs on far more balls in the hole than most SS do.

This is 1000% accurate...His range to his left is not that good at all...To his right it is very good.

Excellent post Mac.

[El Gordo]

This is 1000% accurate...His range to his left is not that good at all...To his right it is very good.

Excellent post Mac.

The question is how many balls get through up the middle in comparison to the balls he gets to in the hole; is it an equal trade off? I don't think the O's think so

[Frobby]

This is 1000% accurate...His range to his left is not that good at all...To his right it is very good.

Excellent post Mac.

I agree too. But this year I did feel he made more than his share of mental errors and bad exchanges on DP's, in addition to having limited range up the middle. He had two long streaks when he went in to fielding funks (5 errors in April, 6 in August). His detractors exaggerate his defensive shortcomings, but I definitely feel its fair to say that he had better range when he got here than he has now, and of course that's only likely to get worse.

[Mackus]

The question is how many balls get through up the middle in comparison to the balls he gets to in the hole; is it an equal trade off? I don't think the O's think so

His range is certainly not the problem, and I don't think the O's think that it is the problem. Mental errors and small flubs are why they want to upgrade defensively. He's still an average defensive SS overall, IMO, but they want someone who's more towards the elite end, even if it sacrifices offense. Thats ok, as long as you swap Miggy for a good return, and make sure you get someone who can at least hold their own with the bat. No glorified little leaguers like Luis Hernandez. We need about a .680-.720 OPS out of an "elite" defensive SS to make it worthwhile.

[Sports Guy]

Perhaps those mental errors are just a result of him being fed up with this team...Fed up with all the walks.

I am not trying to say it is ok for him to have these errors but it does have to get to a player after a while.

[Lucky Jim]

Sounds like another good reason for a three way trade where the O's trade Tejada and get back Wilson and Adam Laroche from the Pirates.

This is a terrible trade. And "like another" implies there was a first good reason.