Orioles sign Vlad

[Going Underground]

I think the O's would have to be overwhelmed to trade Scott. I can see Pie or Reimold going if they want to shore up another position. They might keep all these players for depth and sign another pitcher to a minor league contract. We shall see what happens. If a team has an injury during Spring Training to a Dh or outfielder we might be able to get something. I think the U's are going to wait till Spring Training before anything happens.

[basstrombonenyc]

I don't disagree with you...however, one thing that people like myself and Stotle can realize is that there is value to putting some life into the fan base.

This is one of the best baseball towns in the country and the fans are pretty loyal...but 13 years of being a joke has worn down the fan base.

Injecting some life into the fan base is something that can not be ignored. Stopping the 13 year losing streak is important.

I think we can all agree on the importance of those things.

Agreed. Not to mention that free agents might find Baltimore more attractive next year. While Vlad and Lee are mercenaries at best, a winning season might make a superstar (Fielder/Pujols) signing a reality.

[Birds08]

I don't disagree with you...however, one thing that people like myself and Stotle can realize is that there is value to putting some life into the fan base.

This is one of the best baseball towns in the country and the fans are pretty loyal...but 13 years of being a joke has worn down the fan base.

Injecting some life into the fan base is something that can not be ignored. Stopping the 13 year losing streak is important.

I think we can all agree on the importance of those things.

It is also worth pointing out that if this move does get the team over the proverbial hump to being a good, over 500 team with a passionate fan base, that has value in and of itself in that other FAs could see Baltimore as a bit more desirable destination. Obviously no guarantees that one good season would change the mindset, but it is possible.

[Birds08]

Agreed. Not to mention that free agents might find Baltimore more attractive next year. While Vlad and Lee are mercenaries at best, a winning season might make a superstar (Fielder/Pujols) signing a reality.

Damn....beat me to it.

[Flosman]

I don't disagree with you...however, one thing that people like myself and Stotle can realize is that there is value to putting some life into the fan base.

This is one of the best baseball towns in the country and the fans are pretty loyal...but 13 years of being a joke has worn down the fan base.

Injecting some life into the fan base is something that can not be ignored. Stopping the 13 year losing streak is important.

I think we can all agree on the importance of those things.

Are you really sure about this? Back in the glory days the old park was not filled by any means. Now in that era almost all parks regularly had empty seats but Baltimore was not a leader in putting butts in the seats. Camden

Yards changed that for a while but the fan base changed. Not living in the area for sometime I am not certain but I suspect that the rabid old Memorial type fans is what we have left now. How fast the Latte group comes back is uncertain.

[El Gordo]

Are you really sure about this? Back in the glory days the old park was not filled by any means. Now in that era almost all parks regularly had empty seats but Baltimore was not a leader in putting butts in the seats. Camden

Yards changed that for a while but the fan base changed. Not living in the area for sometime I am not certain but I suspect that the rabid old Memorial type fans is what we have left now. How fast the Latte group comes back is uncertain.

If we win they will come.

[wildcard]

There is something very basic that I think is being missed here.

Buck is going for it. He is not building for the future which I think he believes is AM job. He is building for this year. And I think he believes he can build a playoff team out of the O's in 2011 like he did with the D'Back in his 2nd year.

The move with Vlad is to put a feared hitter in the cleanup spot and focus the team on winning this year. He acted at Fanfest like he wanted Vlad. His two month turnaround made believers of many in the organization include PA I would think. So when he tells PA he wants Vlad so he can get to the playoffs then the money becomes available and AM structures the contract to keep the payroll low this year so it is line with the projected revenues.

I think Buck believes he has a 800+ offense. He knows that is probably 80 runs behind the Yankees and Red Sox. But he also knows what he saw the last two months of 2010. The O's pitching is ready to break out with the help of a good defense. To be a contender there should to be a 150 run difference be runs scored and run allowed. That means the runs allowed have to around 650. I think he believes he can do that. The model is different from the Yankee and Red Sox slug them to death approach but it could be just as effective.

As far as the future, if Buck puts the O's in contention in 2011 then the revenue increases and a combination of improvement on development while adding free agents and trades can keep the O's at the top of the division. Don't think that its not possible. Look at what AM and Buck have done just this off season.

Bottom Line: Don't overlook the idea that Buck is going for it, and I mean right now.

[Sports Guy]

I think the O's would have to be overwhelmed to trade Scott. I can see Pie or Reimold going if they want to shore up another position. They might keep all these players for depth and sign another pitcher to a minor league contract. We shall see what happens. If a team has an injury during Spring Training to a Dh or outfielder we might be able to get something. I think the U's are going to wait till Spring Training before anything happens.

At this point, what area do they have to improve on?

I mean, are you going to have Arrieta or BB in AAA as well as Tillman?

I would think the only way a trade should be made is if they are dealing 2-4 players for a top level LFer or starter(and Scott in the trade).

[BRob411]

There is something very basic that I think is being missed here.

Buck is going for it. He is not building for the future which I think he believes is AM job. He is building for this year. And I think he believes he can build a playoff team out of the O's in 2011 like he did with the D'Back in his 2nd year.

The move with Vlad is to put a feared hitter in the cleanup spot and focus the team on winning this year. He acted at Fanfest like he wanted Vlad. His two month turnaround made believers of many in the organization include PA I would think. So when he tells PA he wants Vlad so he can get to the playoffs then the money becomes available and AM structures the contract to keep the payroll low this year so it is line with the projected revenues.

I think Buck believes he has a 800+ offense. He knows that is probably 80 runs behind the Yankees and Red Sox. But he also knows what he saw the last two months of 2010. The O's pitching is ready to break out with the help of a good defense. To be a contender there should to be a 150 run difference be runs scored and run allowed. That means the runs allowed have to around 650. I think he believes he can do that. The model is different from the Yankee and Red Sox slug them to death approach but it could be just as effective.

As far as the future, if Buck puts the O's in contention in 2011 then the revenue increases and a combination of improvement on development while adding free agents and trades can keep the O's at the top of the division. Don't think that its not possible. Look at what AM and Buck have done just this off season.

Bottom Line: Don't overlook the idea that Buck is going for it, and I mean right now.

All good points, Buck isn't going to listen to the analysts and experts who are saying that the O's are a 75-81 team at best. He's not telling his players "Lets go for .500 this year, he believes that this team can compete with the Sox and Yanks and possibly contend for a playoff spot. Buck's reputation of pulling off dramatic turnarounds are well documented and he believes he can do it again with this Orioles team.

[Dipper9]

I am very happy about this signing. The money doesn't bother me, nor does it bother me IF Peter antied up the final 3 million. We got the player and that's all that matters. I like Reimold a lot, but he nor Pie have done anything to claim the left field job, and they've been given two years of uncontested time to do so. Now they can fight for playing time while major leaguers are at each position.

This is going to be a really fun season. I can only think of one word, Cindy's "Believe!" :clap3:

[El Gordo]

At this point, what area do they have to improve on?

I mean, are you going to have Arrieta or BB in AAA as well as Tillman?

I would think the only way a trade should be made is if they are dealing 2-4 players for a top level LFer or starter(and Scott in the trade).

They need a TOR SP, a long term 1B, a future 2B, and more SP.

[Birds of B'more]

And the theory that goes something like, "ah what the heck, the O's weren't going to spend that money on development anyway" is a copout, and that tacit acceptance just enables the underperformance the O's have been mired in. If the folks in charge cannot be trusted to spend money and allocate resources most effectively, then you all should be yelling from the rooftops that they be canned and replaced by people that will.

We "enable" them? Please.

What more are fans supposed to do? The empty seats at OPACY should say it all. The front office is asked regularly, even by this website's owner, why we don't have more scouts, why we don't invest more in international player development. People have railed on those topics on this board for years. Nothing has changed. You act like there is more we can do. If you have a specific suggestion that will finally get the attention of ownership and the front office, I'm all ears. Otherwise, stop laying the blame at our feet simply because people are energized by the fact that we have the best looking lineup we've seen in many a year.

[Arthur_Bryant]

Bottom Line: Don't overlook the idea that Buck is going for it, and I mean right now.

I agree. The Vlad signing really only makes sense for a team that expects to win somewhere north of 85 wins.

These are moves that a team makes when it thinks it's ready to mix it up with the big boys. I don't think this is all Buck, either. AM gave a very revealing video interview with Roch (I think) last October (I think) in which he basically said that he accepted that the turnaround under Buck was for real and that it was time to support it with a commitment this winter. Shortly afterward AM and Buck had what looked like a strategy meeting with PA. I said at the time that we should expect a very active offseason with significant money being spent.

Pretty clearly, this is supposed to be the season when things start to turn around, both in the standings and in the attendance numbers. The O's are making a serious bet on Buck and his assessment.

[Birds of B'more]

I agree. The Vlad signing really only makes sense for a team that expects to win somewhere north of 85 wins.

These are moves that a team makes when it thinks it's ready to mix it up with the big boys. I don't think this is all Buck, either. AM gave a very revealing video interview with Roch (I think) last October (I think) in which he basically said that he accepted that the turnaround under Buck was for real and that it was time to support it with a commitment this winter. Shortly afterward AM and Buck had what looked like a strategy meeting with PA. I said at the time that we should expect a very active offseason with significant money being spent.

Pretty clearly, this is supposed to be the season when things start to turn around, both in the standings and in the attendance numbers. The O's are making a serious bet on Buck and his assessment.

If they think the young starters can take the sort of leap that Tampa's did in 2008, I suppose that's plausible. Despite the additions to the lineup, this season is going to be all about them.

[El Gordo]

My $0.02 as a non-O's fan:

I largely agree with the sentiment expressed by Stotle and Neyer, although I would couch it somewhat differently.

What every fan should demand is that their front office has a clear and focused blueprint for getting the team from where it is, to where it wants to go (or, keeping it there, if it's achieved championship-caliber). The organizational philosophy has to be unambiguous and singularly devoted to winning championships. Naturally the plan needs constant attention and real-time course corrections, but the goal must remain the same, and be the guiding light for all decisions.

So as we sit here in February 2011, what should the O's blueprint for achieving sustained excellence look like?

And specifically, how does a guy like 36-YO Vlad Guerrero fit into that picture?

It's exceedingly easy to argue that he doesn't fit in at all. Vlad on a one-year contract doesn't get the O's any closer to the promised land.

$8M well spent in any number of ways (amateur scouting, international signings, better minor league instruction, bigger and better latin facilities and presences, etc.) surely fits into the plan.

Giving significant opportunity to young guys that have the potential to be significant contributors for another decade surely fits into the plan as well. If they flop, you've lost nothing. It's all upside.

With Vlad, there's no upside. At best, it's treading water.

And the theory that goes something like, "ah what the heck, the O's weren't going to spend that money on development anyway" is a copout, and that tacit acceptance just enables the underperformance the O's have been mired in. If the folks in charge cannot be trusted to spend money and allocate resources most effectively, then you all should be yelling from the rooftops that they be canned and replaced by people that will.

I'm pretty sure that the main impetus behind Vlad's signing was Buck, so you should imagine what his answer to your position would be. I think he would talk about the importance of having a respected and feared hitter in the lineup to the development of guys like Wieters and Jones, and the boost in confidence for the young SP ,to know we have a balanced lineup that can score them runs. If the addition of guys like Vlad and Lee can contribute to the progress of the young players and let them experience the taste of real competitiveness then the sighning has value. Not to mention the boost in excitement for the fanbase.