Klein to the bullpen

[Sports Guy]

I like his stuff, but more as an 8th inning guy than a shutdown closer type. We'll see how it plays over a full ML season. I'm just not sure a MR arm, even a very good one, is valuable enough to skip out on the chance to have even a #4 starter. If BAL thinks he can be a #3, you have to try him in a rotation.

Ehh, I know you have seen him more than me(and talked to scouts) but I disagree with this. I really liked what I saw from him in that 4 inning outing in the CWS. Again, I know its a small sample size and you can only take so much from it but that combined with his ability to throw 3 or 4 pitches leads him to believe he could be a dominant back end reliever.

Not to mention, there isn't much difference between a very good 8th inning arm and a very good 9th inning arm.

[Stotle]

No worries. By you saying the exact thing I said allowed your brofriend RVABird to quote you and ignore another one of my posts.

I don't know what this means, or whether or not to take offense. So I'll just do this:

:boogie:

[Tony-OH]

I am not a huge fan of the pick, but in my critiques I don't give enough ink to the fact that it was generally a weak college draft. So, I can understand Jordan looking for a risk to take. I don't necessarily agree with this particular move, but if the plan was to stay around slot, it isn't like this is a terrible pick.

My preference would have been to go over slot and grab one of the high ceilinged high schoolers or spend a slot pick on a positional player in a position of need, but that's subjective. We'll see how it turns out. More importantly, we'll see how the picks are spent in a very talented class where you can really structure your draft class portfolio in a lot of really fun ways.

I certainly don't know the available talent at the time like you did, but I don't see how going for a guy you profile as a big league starter is not a good pick in the 3rd round.

Now, if you don't profile him as a starter then I certainly understand your argument, but Jordan definitely sees Klein as a starter. I haven't seen him pitch but from everything I've heard about the guy after he arrived, the Orioles really like him and think he has a chance to be a good starter down the road.

He's certainly a risk pick in a way because of his lack of track record starting, but the reports on the stuff sound pretty good for a 3rd round guy.

From what I've heard, if he had started last year, he would have been a late 1st round guy.

[Tony-OH]

I don't know what this means, or whether or not to take offense. So I'll just do this:

:boogie:

It wasn't directed at you.

[Stotle]

Ehh, I know you have seen him more than me(and talked to scouts) but I disagree with this. I really liked what I saw from him in that 4 inning outing in the CWS. Again, I know its a small sample size and you can only take so much from it but that combined with his ability to throw 3 or 4 pitches leads him to believe he could be a dominant back end reliever.

Not to mention, there isn't much difference between a very good 8th inning arm and a very good 9th inning arm.

I think there is a difference, it's just that there aren't that many very good 9th inning arms, so a number of 8th inning guys get the job.

I also know you know this, but you need to be a lot more precise with your offerings and the quality of the offering has to be a whole lot better to get out ML hitters than it does to get out collegiate hitters -- even a solid but not spectacular lineup like South Carolina.

[Stotle]

It wasn't directed at you.

Then I add a:

:wedge:

[Stotle]

I certainly don't know the available talent at the time like you did, but I don't see how going for a guy you profile as a big league starter is not a good pick in the 3rd round.

Now, if you don't profile him as a starter then I certainly understand your argument, but Jordan definitely sees Klein as a starter. I haven't seen him pitch but from everything I've heard about the guy after he arrived, the Orioles really like him and think he has a chance to be a good starter down the road.

He's certainly a risk pick in a way because of his lack of track record starting, but the reports on the stuff sound pretty good for a 3rd round guy.

From what I've heard, if he had started last year, he would have been a late 1st round guy.

Your exactly right -- it's all risk profile. My personal preference would be not to take on that risk, but I acknowledge the draw of getting a little gamble in you when the draft is not overwhelming. That said, I saw it as a greater argument for taking someone like Cecchini, Cole or if limited to slot a positional guy like Rutledge.

[flashjordnk]

So I know about the +30 rule. I get it...it generally makes sense to me.

In this application though...I'm wondering how much it means. If we're stretching Klein out in 2-3 inning stints, I'd hope they let him add more than 30 total innings.

I was thinking the larger struggle for Klein is going to be pitching effectively for 5+ innings. And especially after those 5+ innings get taken up. Wouldn't the Orioles be interested in seeing if his stuff can get through multiple times of a lineup sooner rather than later. If we only let him do 2-3 inning stints we're not going to get to see this and we're not going to see if his abilities can play out over a full game.

It seems like if we're not using a starter mentality with this guy we're not going to get a full assessment of everything we need to know about him as a starter.

If you guys with hands on baseball knowledge could explain how adding one inning to 30 appearances over the year are really priming him to be a starter to me that would be great. In some cases I think we're using a number based stat and applying it across the board when that might not be the best application.

[Stotle]

So I know about the +30 rule. I get it...it generally makes sense to me.

In this application though...I'm wondering how much it means. If we're stretching Klein out in 2-3 inning stints, I'd hope they let him add more than 30 total innings.

I was thinking the larger struggle for Klein is going to be pitching effectively for 5+ innings. And especially after those 5+ innings get taken up. Wouldn't the Orioles be interested in seeing if his stuff can get through multiple times of a lineup sooner rather than later. If we only let him do 2-3 inning stints we're not going to get to see this and we're not going to see if his abilities can play out over a full game.

It seems like if we're not using a starter mentality with this guy we're not going to get a full assessment of everything we need to know about him as a starter.

If you guys with hands on baseball knowledge could explain how adding one inning to 30 appearances over the year are really priming him to be a starter to me that would be great. In some cases I think we're using a number based stat and applying it across the board when that might not be the best application.

Two concerns -- pitches per start and innigns over a season. I assume BAL wants to build the foundation for lasting throughout a full season as a starter (build up the arm strength for the long haul) before turning him loose as a starter.

Even once they turn him loose as a starter, I would assume it would be controled -- around 5 IP per start. So, I think they want to do what you are suggesting, but they want him to get a full year of 100IP or so first.

He's essentially 1 year behind a typical top 3 round college starter.

[Tony-OH]

So I know about the +30 rule. I get it...it generally makes sense to me.

In this application though...I'm wondering how much it means. If we're stretching Klein out in 2-3 inning stints, I'd hope they let him add more than 30 total innings.

I was thinking the larger struggle for Klein is going to be pitching effectively for 5+ innings. And especially after those 5+ innings get taken up. Wouldn't the Orioles be interested in seeing if his stuff can get through multiple times of a lineup sooner rather than later. If we only let him do 2-3 inning stints we're not going to get to see this and we're not going to see if his abilities can play out over a full game.

It seems like if we're not using a starter mentality with this guy we're not going to get a full assessment of everything we need to know about him as a starter.

If you guys with hands on baseball knowledge could explain how adding one inning to 30 appearances over the year are really priming him to be a starter to me that would be great. In some cases I think we're using a number based stat and applying it across the board when that might not be the best application.

This is a guy who didn't pitch in 2009 and only threw about 65 innings last year so I think the Orioles are just being careful with him. I think we may see him in a rotation over the last month or so just so everyone can get a look at him through a 4-5 inning stint. There's no hurry here. If he gets in a 120-130 innings next year as a starter at AA-AAA he's on the cusp of being ready for the big leagues half way through 2013 which is about the same schedule as Arrieta.

[Sports Guy]

This is a guy who didn't pitch in 2009 and only threw about 65 innings last year so I think the Orioles are just being careful with him. I think we may see him in a rotation over the last month or so just so everyone can get a look at him through a 4-5 inning stint. There's no hurry here. If he gets in a 120-130 innings next year as a starter at AA-AAA he's on the cusp of being ready for the big leagues half way through 2013 which is about the same schedule as Arrieta.

2011: 90ish IP

2012: 120 IP

2013: 150 IP

Do you think they would want him pitching in the majors in 2013 with a 150ish IP ceiling?

[Can_of_corn]

2011: 90ish IP

2012: 120 IP

2013: 150 IP

Do you think they would want him pitching in the majors in 2013 with a 150ish IP ceiling?

Klein will turn 25 in July 2013, the Verducci effect is for players under 25 so I think he could safely go over 150 in 2013 and be without a cap in 2014.

[Arthur_Bryant]

So I know about the +30 rule. I get it...it generally makes sense to me.

In this application though...I'm wondering how much it means. If we're stretching Klein out in 2-3 inning stints, I'd hope they let him add more than 30 total innings.

I was thinking the larger struggle for Klein is going to be pitching effectively for 5+ innings. And especially after those 5+ innings get taken up.

Klein has had a very minimal workload, even through HS.

This is his IP history (not accounting for scrimmages or postseason showcases):

2007 - Klein pitched 56 innings in his senior year HS .

2008 -- He pitched 17 innings his freshman year at UCLA.

2009-- Redshirt/surgery

2010 -- 63 IP between UCLA and Aberdeen

Given his minimal background of IP and his injury history, my (wildass) guess is that the 30-inning rule should be even more significant in his case.

This guy just hasn't pitched very much relative to the peers in his class who are being groomed for a rotation. Caution is probably in order.

EDIT: I see that Tony is in ahead of me on this; sorry for the duplication.

[Tony-OH]

2011: 90ish IP

2012: 120 IP

2013: 150 IP

Do you think they would want him pitching in the majors in 2013 with a 150ish IP ceiling?

Arrieta, Tillman and Matusz all did so I don't see why not.

[csgordos]

If he is converted back to a bullpen guy who is a comparison for him? I know JJ was a starter and our Minor's pitcher of the year one year, but I don't remember him having as large an arsenal and that was why he seems to found his niche in the BP.

Also any chance that Buck may want to use pitchers in the future like Earl like to, bringing up young guys and have them earn their stripes in the pen and then transition to the rotation? Anybody have an idea what his past pattern was with young pitchers?

4 pages in the minors section. Seems to be heating up.