Klein to the bullpen

[Sports Guy]

I think they are going to keep me in the 'pen. It's not permanent and they are leaving the option open for me to start down the road, whether it be later this year or the start of next year," Klein said by phone Wednesday from his home in Orange County, Calif. "I feel real comfortable out of the pen. We just thought as a group this would be the best decision for this year."

Are you looking for some mystery here? The idea is to keep his innings down and the easiest way to do that is to have him pitch out of the pen. The plan still seems to be to make him a starter. Do you think that's changed?

I think it has changed if he is a dominant reliever.

As I said, college relievers tend to move very quickly if they are very good immediately.

Let's say that Klein sees time in Baltimore this year because he was great in the minors and really had nothing left to prove. Do you think the plan would then be to send him back to the minors and have him start?

I guess my pverall point is simple...if Klein performs out of the pen, I think the plan is changed because the Orioles see that he can help now, that they don't have to wait another 2-3 years for him to MAYBE become a starter and they just go with him as a reliever.

If they use him in 3-4 inning spurts 2 times a week and he does well but doesn't really advance much, then I would guess the starter plan is still in tact.

I just don't think that will happen. I happen to be very high on this kid as a reliever and I think his performance and the time line will make the Orioles change their mind.

[eb45]

The problem is you're referring to Klein as a "college reliever" when he's not. He's a college starter who will be pitching out of the bullpen. The Orioles don't view him as a reliever and will not develop him like one.

[Stotle]

FINALLY, a smart decision! :clap3:

Wouldn't shock me to see him knocking on the ML door this year.

Eh, don't count those chickens yet. I don't see why they'd simply abandon trying him as a starter. This looks like they want to stretch him out over short stints. Finish-up in HiA/AA, then tackle AA in 2012 as a starter with 100 IP under his belt. Stretch him out to 130 IP or so and tackle 2013 as a starter in AAA with 125-130 IP under his belt. Give him a chance to make the ML squad in 2013 with 150 IP under his belt the prior season.

Now, if the team is competing for playoff spots in 2012 and 2013, maybe they skip him ahead to help out in the pen, but this generally just seams like a way to stretch him out. I mean, how else were they going to limit innigns while giving him regular work as a starter?

EDIT - guess I should have read the thread. I agree with Tony, RZ, etc. that this is just a mechanism for keeping down innings, and he should be starting at AA in the rotation next year if all goes well.

[RVAbird]

Eh, don't count those chickens yet. I don't see why they'd simply abandon trying him as a starter. This looks like they want to stretch him out over short stints. Finish-up in HiA/AA, then tackle AA in 2012 as a starter with 100 IP under his belt. Stretch him out to 130 IP or so and tackle 2013 as a starter in AAA with 125-130 IP under his belt. Give him a chance to make the ML squad in 2013 with 150 IP under his belt the prior season.

Now, if the team is competing for playoff spots in 2012 and 2013, maybe they skip him ahead to help out in the pen, but this generally just seams like a way to stretch him out. I mean, how else were they going to limit innigns while giving him regular work as a starter?

EDIT - guess I should have read the thread. I agree with Tony, RZ, etc. that this is just a mechanism for keeping down innings, and he should be starting at AA in the rotation next year if all goes well.

Right, and I agree with this approach.

If the team is competitive in 2012 or 2013, they can easily dip down and play him out of the pen. In the absence of that, continue to stretch him out over the next few years, since a young shutdown reliever would not be as critical.

[RandyM]

Eh, don't count those chickens yet. I don't see why they'd simply abandon trying him as a starter. This looks like they want to stretch him out over short stints. Finish-up in HiA/AA, then tackle AA in 2012 as a starter with 100 IP under his belt. Stretch him out to 130 IP or so and tackle 2013 as a starter in AAA with 125-130 IP under his belt. Give him a chance to make the ML squad in 2013 with 150 IP under his belt the prior season.

Now, if the team is competing for playoff spots in 2012 and 2013, maybe they skip him ahead to help out in the pen, but this generally just seams like a way to stretch him out. I mean, how else were they going to limit innigns while giving him regular work as a starter?

EDIT - guess I should have read the thread. I agree with Tony, RZ, etc. that this is just a mechanism for keeping down innings, and he should be starting at AA in the rotation next year if all goes well.

This still is a very interesting pick. Maybe I am not getting it, but why do you use one of your earlier picks when you don't have a 2nd round pick to convert a RP to a starter?

The guy is probably at least a year behind a regular college SP prospect in regards to progression. Plus, there is that extra risk that you don't really don't know how his stuff will play out over a whole season and with the extra innings until a year or two into his pro career. This is versus having a decent idea with him another SP when they are in college.

Sure, he might have 3 or 4 pitches, but has he had to use those over 100 innings plus. Also, while going more than a couple innings and having players see your array of pitches more than once in a game? Just a little odd pick.

Am I missing something?

[RVAbird]

This still is a very interesting pick. Maybe I am not getting it, but why do you use one of your earlier picks when you don't have a 2nd round pick to convert a RP to a starter?

The guy is probably at least a year behind a regular college SP prospect in regards to progression. Plus, there is that extra risk that you don't really don't know how his stuff will play out over a whole season and with the extra innings until a year or two into his pro career. This is versus having a decent idea with him another SP when they are in college.

Sure, he might have 3 or 4 pitches, but has he had to use those over 100 innings plus. Also, while going more than a couple innings and having players see your array of pitches more than once in a game? Just a little odd pick.

Am I missing something?

The pick is certainly debatable, but I would contest the idea that this is converting a relief pitcher to a starter. Klein's stuff plays as a starter. He's got the arsenal and the stuff. The only reason he wasn't a starter in his junior year was because he was recovering from a shoulder surgery that made him a red-shirt sophomore. If he had been healthy and stretched out over his college career, he could have been a first-round talent.

[Sports Guy]

Eh, don't count those chickens yet. I don't see why they'd simply abandon trying him as a starter. This looks like they want to stretch him out over short stints. Finish-up in HiA/AA, then tackle AA in 2012 as a starter with 100 IP under his belt. Stretch him out to 130 IP or so and tackle 2013 as a starter in AAA with 125-130 IP under his belt. Give him a chance to make the ML squad in 2013 with 150 IP under his belt the prior season.

Now, if the team is competing for playoff spots in 2012 and 2013, maybe they skip him ahead to help out in the pen, but this generally just seams like a way to stretch him out. I mean, how else were they going to limit innigns while giving him regular work as a starter?

EDIT - guess I should have read the thread. I agree with Tony, RZ, etc. that this is just a mechanism for keeping down innings, and he should be starting at AA in the rotation next year if all goes well.

I also agree that this is the plan and their intention....but I just don't think it will come to fruition because he will prove to valuable to move from the pen.

[Stotle]

I also agree that this is the plan and their intention....but I just don't think it will come to fruition because he will prove to valuable to move from the pen.

I like his stuff, but more as an 8th inning guy than a shutdown closer type. We'll see how it plays over a full ML season. I'm just not sure a MR arm, even a very good one, is valuable enough to skip out on the chance to have even a #4 starter. If BAL thinks he can be a #3, you have to try him in a rotation.

[Stotle]

This still is a very interesting pick. Maybe I am not getting it, but why do you use one of your earlier picks when you don't have a 2nd round pick to convert a RP to a starter?

The guy is probably at least a year behind a regular college SP prospect in regards to progression. Plus, there is that extra risk that you don't really don't know how his stuff will play out over a whole season and with the extra innings until a year or two into his pro career. This is versus having a decent idea with him another SP when they are in college.

Sure, he might have 3 or 4 pitches, but has he had to use those over 100 innings plus. Also, while going more than a couple innings and having players see your array of pitches more than once in a game? Just a little odd pick.

Am I missing something?

I am not a huge fan of the pick, but in my critiques I don't give enough ink to the fact that it was generally a weak college draft. So, I can understand Jordan looking for a risk to take. I don't necessarily agree with this particular move, but if the plan was to stay around slot, it isn't like this is a terrible pick.

My preference would have been to go over slot and grab one of the high ceilinged high schoolers or spend a slot pick on a positional player in a position of need, but that's subjective. We'll see how it turns out. More importantly, we'll see how the picks are spent in a very talented class where you can really structure your draft class portfolio in a lot of really fun ways.

[Tony-OH]

But, to your knowledge, they were going to have him start THIS YEAR, right?

No, I was told they were going to limit his innings this year and that he COULD work out of the pen at the beginning stages of his conversion back to a starter. I figured they would start him in order to get him regular work, but limit his innings to 2-3 at first and then build it until he gets to 4-5.

Perhaps they felt it's easier to monitor his innings by getting him regular bullpen work on set days. I'll see what I can find out.

[now]

I also agree that this is the plan and their intention....but I just don't think it will come to fruition because he will prove to valuable to move from the pen.

I was going to say something about "value" and your post invites it. To me the approach of this organization (AM in particular) seems very rational and objective about things like value. I even seem to recall a statement by AM after some transaction to the effect of, "If you ever have a chance to get a starter for a reliever, you do it every time" (it may have been re. Ray for Millwood). Simply put, good starters are harder to come by than good relievers.

[Tony-OH]

EDIT - guess I should have read the thread. I agree with Tony, RZ, etc. that this is just a mechanism for keeping down innings, and he should be starting at AA in the rotation next year if all goes well.

No worries. By you saying the exact thing I said allowed your brofriend RVABird to quote you and ignore another one of my posts.

[RVAbird]

No worries. By you saying the exact thing I said allowed your brofriend RVABird to quote you and ignore another one of my posts.

What?

I'm sorry?

[Tony-OH]

I was going to say something about "value" and your post invites it. To me the approach of this organization (AM in particular) seems very rational and objective about things like value. I even seem to recall a statement by AM after some transaction to the effect of, "If you ever have a chance to get a starter for a reliever, you do it every time" (it may have been re. Ray for Millwood). Simply put, good starters are harder to come by than good relievers.

This is really the entire argument. In the end, Klein might end up back in the pen, but he's built like a starter, has four pitches, and the only reason he closed last year in college was because of the time he missed the previous two seasons and the fact that the Friday night and Sunday starters were already set.

The Orioles have a multitude of arms that are available to relieve, but besides Britton, there's not another starter in the minors who pitched at Frederick or above last year that currently profiles as a starter. They get a whole lot more value out of Klein if they take the three years to develop him back into a starter. If that doesn't work or he can't hold up, they can always convert him back to relief.

[RVAbird]

This is really the entire argument. In the end, Klein might end up back in the pen, but he's built like a starter, has four pitches, and the only reason he closed last year in college was because of the time he missed the previous two seasons and the fact that the Friday night and Sunday starters were already set.

The Orioles have a multitude of arms that are available to relieve, but besides Britton, there's not another starter in the minors who pitched at Frederick or above last year that currently profiles as a starter. They get a whole lot more value out of Klein if they take the three years to develop him back into a starter. If that doesn't work or he can't hold up, they can always convert him back to relief.

I agree with every word of this post.

I'm sorry that I did not quote you earlier. It was not a personal slight to you.