Buster Olney's offseason plan for the O's

[Sports Guy]

Please...I'm not going to listen to you of all people lecture me on assumptions. You routinely come up with trade proposals that you insist other teams would accept and, now, when it is convenient you play the "nobody really knows" card.

Mark Teixeira is having a down year and still has a shot to hit 30 HRs with an OPS in the high .800s. He has a gold glove, he is under contract for 2 seasons, he's in his mid-20s. He is coming off of two monster seasons in a row.

I never said I "know" that these teams would be interested, but I certainly don't think it is that far-fetched to think that more than one or two teams would be interested in him and could offer a better deal for the Rangers than your package. And, furthermore, teams can randomly become interested depending on injuries, FA signings, production. The Reds, Tigers became buyers in a year. It could easily happen again.

I THINK your package is ridiculous. I THINK the Rangers would laugh the O's out of the building if they were offered that deal. And I THINK several teams would offer much better packages either this off-season or at the deadline if they felt adding Tex could get them to the playoffs.

Ok...Since you seem to know what everyone would offer...Let's see some deals you think others would offer.

Also, what do you think it would take for the Orioles to acquire him.

[ejf1025]

Ok...Since you seem to know what everyone would offer...Let's see some deals you think others would offer.

Also, what do you think it would take for the Orioles to acquire him.

Off the top of my head...

If the Yanks get desperate, sign Matuszake (sp?) and/or Zito, Schmidt...I could certainly see them giving a package centered around Hughes or Wang, possibly Cabrera for Teixeira.

I could see several three ways occurring that could bring Texas an Oswalt...heck, if Boston misses the playoffs I could see them moving Lester...maybe even some mega-deal involving Beckett. You've already mention both the Angels and Dodgers systems. If the Nats wanted to trump the O's and make up for the loss of Soriano, perhaps some Nick Johnson/John Patterson/Chad Cordero package. I could see Detroit offering a Maroth/Robertson (maybe even Bonderman) plus Rodney package.

The point is Texas wants/can win now. A package that only adds a Gibbons/Benson to their 25 man and centered around a pitcher that just got to AA does not help them.

As for the O's...

I think Texas will prob demand Bedard. But you could prob get around that and center something around Cabrera. I doubt they'd have much interest in Penn, Loewen as centerpieces because of their limited experience. Cabrera's stuff is electric enough to probably make them overlook a lot of his troubles. Then you'd prob have to add in 2,3 more pieces. I'd guess a young arm (Hoey? Olson?) plus a positional player depending on their needs (Patterson? Gibbons?), might even ask for Benson.

[Sports Guy]

Off the top of my head...

If the Yanks get desperate, sign Matuszake (sp?) and/or Zito, Schmidt...I could certainly see them giving a package centered around Hughes or Wang, possibly Cabrera for Teixeira.

I could see several three ways occurring that could bring Texas an Oswalt...heck, if Boston misses the playoffs I could see them moving Lester...maybe even some mega-deal involving Beckett. You've already mention both the Angels and Dodgers systems. If the Nats wanted to trump the O's and make up for the loss of Soriano, perhaps some Nick Johnson/John Patterson/Chad Cordero package. I could see Detroit offering a Maroth/Robertson (maybe even Bonderman) plus Rodney package.

The point is Texas wants/can win now. A package that only adds a Gibbons/Benson to their 25 man and centered around a pitcher that just got to AA does not help them.

So you think Melky and Hughes or Wang does it but Gibbons, Benson and 2 of Reimold, Liz, Olson, Hoey and Britton is a joke? Wow!

What else with Lester?

Rodney and Maroth or Robertson is so much better than that package?

Reimold and Liz are rated amongst the best 75 minor leaguers in baseball...Benson is a league average guy and Gibbons can give you, if he stays healthy, a 850ish OPS with 30 homers. That is a package to laugh at but yours aren't? Just wow.

[Sports Guy]

Off the top of my head...

If the Yanks get desperate, sign Matuszake (sp?) and/or Zito, Schmidt...I could certainly see them giving a package centered around Hughes or Wang, possibly Cabrera for Teixeira.

I could see several three ways occurring that could bring Texas an Oswalt...heck, if Boston misses the playoffs I could see them moving Lester...maybe even some mega-deal involving Beckett. You've already mention both the Angels and Dodgers systems. If the Nats wanted to trump the O's and make up for the loss of Soriano, perhaps some Nick Johnson/John Patterson/Chad Cordero package. I could see Detroit offering a Maroth/Robertson (maybe even Bonderman) plus Rodney package.

The point is Texas wants/can win now. A package that only adds a Gibbons/Benson to their 25 man and centered around a pitcher that just got to AA does not help them.

As for the O's...

I think Texas will prob demand Bedard. But you could prob get around that and center something around Cabrera. I doubt they'd have much interest in Penn, Loewen as centerpieces because of their limited experience. Cabrera's stuff is electric enough to probably make them overlook a lot of his troubles. Then you'd prob have to add in 2,3 more pieces. I'd guess a young arm (Hoey? Olson?) plus a positional player depending on their needs (Patterson? Gibbons?), might even ask for Benson.

How does Lester and Hughes help them win right now?

[ejf1025]

So you think Melky and Hughes or Wang does it but Gibbons, Benson and 2 of Reimold, Liz, Olson, Hoey and Britton is a joke? Wow!

What else with Lester?

Rodney and Maroth or Robertson is so much better than that package?

Reimold and Liz are rated amongst the best 75 minor leaguers in baseball...Benson is a league average guy and Gibbons can give you, if he stays healthy, a 850ish OPS with 30 homers. That is a package to laugh at but yours aren't? Just wow.

I do think those packages are a lot better than yours. Reimold is struggling. Liz and Olson just got to AA and came out of nowhere. Hoey and Britton are just relievers.

All the players I mentioned have actually done something in the pros.

You severely overrate our guys.

[Sports Guy]

I do think those packages are a lot better than yours. Reimold is struggling. Liz and Olson just got to AA and came out of nowhere. Hoey and Britton are just relievers.

All the players I mentioned have actually done something in the pros.

You severely overrate our guys.

What has Hughes and Lester done in the pros?

Hoey and Britton are mentioned because the Rangers have a bad BP and if they feel either could be a closer within a year or 2, they could value them highly.

Reimold's still has a very good OPS and has struggled because of an injury. He is still highly rated.

Matt Garza pretty much came out of nowhere too...Guess he has no value?

[TyCobb]

So you think Melky and Hughes or Wang does it but Gibbons, Benson and 2 of Reimold, Liz, Olson, Hoey and Britton is a joke? Wow!

What else with Lester?

Rodney and Maroth or Robertson is so much better than that package?

Reimold and Liz are rated amongst the best 75 minor leaguers in baseball...Benson is a league average guy and Gibbons can give you, if he stays healthy, a 850ish OPS with 30 homers. That is a package to laugh at but yours aren't? Just wow.

For Tex, IMO Melky, Hughes, AND Wang would get it done. Maybe a Wang and Hughes deal gets done. Texas would definately not want Gibbons, Benson, and 2 of our prospects. If you put Loewen/Penn in Gibbons case that deal could get done. Rodney and Maroth/Robertson is a great package. I think Texas would definately do that deal.

[ejf1025]

How does Lester and Hughes help them win right now?

They prob don't. I admit.

But they are much farther along prospects than Liz and Olson.

If you want to change your deal to include Loewen or Penn, I could see that being more feasible.

[Sports Guy]

They prob don't. I admit.

But they are much farther along prospects than Liz and Olson.

If you want to change your deal to include Loewen or Penn, I could see that being more feasible.

So, Penn/Loewen, Benson/Gibbons/CPat, Hoey/Britton/Olson/Liz....That's what you think?

[Sports Guy]

For Tex, IMO Melky, Hughes, AND Wang would get it done. Maybe a Wang and Hughes deal gets done. Texas would definately not want Gibbons, Benson, and 2 of our prospects. If you put Loewen/Penn in Gibbons case that deal could get done. Rodney and Maroth/Robertson is a great package. I think Texas would definately do that deal.

Obviously you haven't really looked at their stats.(Robertson and Maroth that is)

[ejf1025]

What has Hughes and Lester done in the pros?

Hoey and Britton are mentioned because the Rangers have a bad BP and if they feel either could be a closer within a year or 2, they could value them highly.

Reimold's still has a very good OPS and has struggled because of an injury. He is still highly rated.

Matt Garza pretty much came out of nowhere too...Guess he has no value?

I never said they had no value.

I said the Rangers are not going to give up their franchise players for a package centered around one of them and Gibbons and Benson.

Look...you obviously are not going to change your mind- which really comes as no suprise. I think that's a package that is nowhere close to what Texas will be looking for.

[ejf1025]

So, Penn/Loewen, Benson/Gibbons/CPat, Hoey/Britton/Olson/Liz....That's what you think?

Something along those lines...

I still think they'll want Cabrera out of it. But if you throw in a Penn/Loewen and give them a choice on one of those other 4 arms and a player...sure. That's more plausible to me.

[Sports Guy]

I never said they had no value.

I said the Rangers are not going to give up their franchise players for a package centered around one of them and Gibbons and Benson.

Look...you obviously are not going to change your mind- which really comes as no suprise. I think that's a package that is nowhere close to what Texas will be looking for.

No where close? Seems to me that you want to substitute Penn, Loewen or DCab for Reimold and one of Liz, Olson, Hoey or Britton?

How is that not even close?

[ejf1025]

No where close? Seems to me that you want to substitute Penn, Loewen or DCab for Reimold and one of Liz, Olson, Hoey or Britton?

How is that not even close?

Because Loewen was a #1 pick who has held his own upon promotion. Penn is throwing well at AAA and has already been to the bigs and has been ranked highly for a couple years now (I actually don't even think they'll want a package centered on Penn). And DCab prob has the most electric stuff in the AL.

I don't see how two decent relievers and a new AA pitcher really appeals.

Also, Robertson's got a better WHIP and ERA than Bedard this year, so I really don't get how you can just discard him like he's garbage. Maroth WHIP is high, but he's got a sub-4 ERA as well- course he's been hurt. And I really don't see how you can scoff at Rodney and then pimp Britton and Hoey as possible closer options.

Anyways, I'm sick of this. You're obviously not going to be satisfied until I say something like "Your package is great, Texas will be stupid not to do this." So, just agree to disagree and move on, I should have known better than to try and question you and your trade proposals...

[TyCobb]

Obviously you haven't really looked at their stats.(Robertson and Maroth that is)

Well I didn't, but I am now. Maroth is injuried of course, but has a 5-2 Rec, 3.56 ER in 9 games, has a bad Whip 1.35, but that is only this year. Last year he was 14-14 on a bad Tigers team with a 4.74 ERA. 200 Ip average in the 3 years before this. He is going to strike out in the 100+ and gives up a ton of HR so far around 30 a season. He is a lot older than I thought he was at 29. So Texas definately won't do the Maroth, Rodney trade. Robertson is the same age but is a Lefty. This is going to be his 3rd ful season in the bigs. His 1st two were 196.2 ip each. ERA 4.48-4.9, gives up a ton of HR 28-30 and has a 2-1 K-BB ratio with 122-155 Ks. This year he has a 11-9 Rec, with a 3.71 ERA, on pace for 200+ ip with a ok whip of 1.26. Now that I look at there ages, 29, it would take all 3 to get Tex. I thought that Maroth and RObertson were 27 at the most.