Is it hypocritical to turn on MacPhail now?

[Stotle]

The point is both were 1 year deals so they weren't crippling moves. The Orioles however could have done better than both of them if they had jumped on the opportunities when they were there. And I'm not talking Adam Dunn or Victor Martinez...

It's like you have a mental blinder...

[Stotle]

There was one major difference between Lee and Vlad...Lee gives you defensive value..Vlad does not.

Of course, they should have just signed Kotchman and all would be good.

And their career trajectories were different, and they play different positions, and one looked absolutely cooked last year and one did not. So, like, three major differences.

[SilentJames]

I did mention him this past offseason but I did feel Lee would be the better option.

We all did.

You just know that if Kotchman had come here he would have struggled. There was nothing in his career coming into this season that gave any hint he could do that.

[SrMeowMeow]

We all did.

You just know that if Kotchman had come here he would have struggled. There was nothing in his career coming into this season that gave any hint he could do that.

I mean, he can't do this either. He has a .370 BABIP and his secondary skills (8.0% walk rate vs 8.2% career, 11.3% strikeout rate vs 9.8% career, .128 ISO vs .133 career) are all slightly worse. He's still the same .750 OPS, good defensive first baseman he's become.

[Sports Guy]

We all did.

You just know that if Kotchman had come here he would have struggled. There was nothing in his career coming into this season that gave any hint he could do that.

Well, this is completely wrong.

It is fair to say there was nothing in his RECENT career to expect him to have this kind of a season.

But I also don't think the season he is having is really something that is way out there either.

His BABIP is on the lucky side but still, he was always looked at as a good BA/OBP guy with gap power. That and good defensively.

That is what he has been this year.

[SrMeowMeow]

It's like you have a mental blinder...

How about a metal binder?

[SteveO]

We have ZERO prospects near major league ready. The ones we have produced are under performing and the players signed have been abysmal. Other than that Andy is doing a fabulous job. In 4+ years now this organization is marginally better than it was when Andy got here if not in worse shape. What does it take????

[JTrea81]

And their career trajectories were different, and they play different positions, and one looked absolutely cooked last year and one did not. So, like, three major differences.

Lee was cooked before he got a cortisone shot in his thumb to numb the pain. Remember how well Melvin Mora performed after his?

Injuries were going to catch up to him and they have.

Vlad didn't have a cortisone shot to my knowledge and he had a stellar May and June and still rebounded to post a nice September.

At the time, Lee was more of an unknown than Vlad because of his thumb surgery. Both look done now of course but Vlad on a 1 year deal wasn't a bad move for the boost it could have given the lineup and the fact that Reimold looked like he was a non-factor in AAA and Pie was at best a 4th OFer. Luke Scott was the best solution we had for LF and Vlad was arguably the best DH that had an interest in Baltimore.

There were better options than Derrek Lee and Adam LaRoche for 1B however, but signing Lee to a 1 year deal was not a crippling move.

Both however were moves trying to squeeze an overachieving year out of a declining player, a MacPhail trademark.

[MrOrange82]

I don't think it's hypocritical at all to "turn" on MacPhail. I thought that, entering the season, the O's had a chance to be an upside-85 win team. Three games over .500. I was also pretty adamant that AM hadn't done anything productive for the long term, and that any short-term gains would be...short lived.

Unfortunately, the team hasn't even witnessed short term gains, so...

[SteveA]

And in all fairness, MacPhail doesn't deserve blame for the MLB pitching woes if they are related to Connor. That is on Buck. But I really wonder if a PC can do the amount of damage that's been done to our pitchers this year. I think it has to also go back to conditioning, which is up to MacPhail (and probably Buck) to oversee.

Let's see. Every good prospect pitcher we have for a decade gets hurt a lot or comes to the majors not knowing how to pitch (Riley, Loewen, Bedard, Ponson, Cabrera, Penn, Erbe, Spoone, the list is endless).

We hire a major league pitching coach and in the next few months, every good prospect pitcher we have struggles, seems to be hurt or dealing with lost velocity or struggling. JUST LIKE all the ones that preceeded them in the decade.

So yeah, let's blame the pitching coach.

It would be really wonderfully convenient if all this year's problems could somehow be attributed to a guy who never met these guys until February and was gone in June, and not to systemic problems in player development and conditioning. But it's an incredible leap of faith when you consider that our last several batches of prospect pitchers who never even met Connor suffered the same fate.

[NattieO'sHon]

This is a great thread and what I was asking in my What If..thread. I thought AM put together a great team this offseason. We all felt excited about this year based on the end of last year and the history of the acquire veterans. Then we just completely imploded. There are a lot of questions on why this happened and injuries killed us. One thing I have learned is that as much talent as we have in the ML roster we did not draft and develop that second wave of guys who could help if injuries occurred. I see a ton of talent in A, low A and rookie ball though but they have a couple more years of seasoning.

Well this year I noticed in the draft that we drafted a ton of college players and especially college pitchers. I think we learned a lesson this year and Buck will not let this happen again.

[El Gordo]

I don't think it's hypocritical, just stupid, Why would anyone want to turn AM on. :laughlol:

[mweb]

I do not think it is necessarily hypocritical for posters who supported MacPhail through the offseason to turn on him now, for two reasons.

1. We are amateurs, MacPhail is a professional. For example, if someone here was enthusiastic about signing Vlad, and thought MacPhail was smart to sign him, they are perfectly entitled to say now that MacPhail and his staff should have had the professional acumen to know that Vlad was done.

2. Developments this season have brought into focus some problems with developing the pitchers that weren't so apparent at the end of last season.

Bottom line, fans have the right to change their mind, and that doesn't make them hypocrites.

I somewhat agree. But they shouldn't act like they didn't support various moves/players before and they shouldn't act like they had some stellar plan themselves when it is far from the truth. And if one did support signing Vlad I really don't think they should be totally bashing AM for the move. I just don't care for the posting with hindsight style that is often used, or the undeserved arrogance that some have while they generally ignore the bad ideas they touted.

[El Gordo]

I do not think it is necessarily hypocritical for posters who supported MacPhail through the offseason to turn on him now, for two reasons.

1. We are amateurs, MacPhail is a professional. For example, if someone here was enthusiastic about signing Vlad, and thought MacPhail was smart to sign him, they are perfectly entitled to say now that MacPhail and his staff should have had the professional acumen to know that Vlad was done.

2. Developments this season have brought into focus some problems with developing the pitchers that weren't so apparent at the end of last season.

Bottom line, fans have the right to change their mind, and that doesn't make them hypocrites.

Well, that would be fine if some of these same people didn't claim to have more professional acumen than AM.

[MrOrange82]

Well, that would be fine if some of these same people didn't claim to have more professional acumen than AM.

I have no doubt that the vast majority of OH posters could not actually run a MLB team. That being said, there are quite a few bright people, and AM strikes me as more of an insider type than he does...a winner.

Also...have you never had bosses you felt you were/are smarter/more capable than? Do you suspect that your feelings might have been correct on occasion? I don't think AM is very good at his job. Though most lack experience, there are probably one or two people here (and I'm not including myself in that count) who could do a better job than AM.

We'll never know, of course. But in terms of weighing AM's job performance...results scream angrily for themselves.