Dave Cameron: Big Ticket Signings Don't Drive Attendance

[Moose Milligan]

Part of me actually hopes the Orioles get Fielder and win 72 games for the next 4 years just to see how Trea reacts and what the spin would be.

[Bradysburns]

The Rays also struggle with attendance. Have to wonder how many fans they would draw if they were achieving the same on-field results with more brand-name players.

Very interesting post - and a great observation. The Oakland A's are an example of winning without attendance. They have also struggled to draw fans for many years, including some playoff runs.

I think the OP presented something of a straw-man argument. I don't think many people believe that a "star" is the long-term answer to our attendance issues. It's sort of understood that a star player brings a lot more than a glistening smile and autograph lines. He brings his talent, and wins, and lifts players around him. Long term, that's why you bring him in. The attendance bump is just gravy.

If Griffey's arrival had coincided with the team's revival, then it would have indeed become the long-term answer to their attendance problems. All about the timing, I suppose.

[Bradysburns]

We tried the buying the big FA thing and that season we lost fans (Tejada). In the end they need to build a team they can win and win consistently with. I know you are impatient after all this time, and like I've said before, it's not that I disagree with your general idea. It's just the timing that tends to be the problem. Let's get some more talent infused in the high-A-AA area with some talented IFAs, have another solid draft this year, and develop the guys we have now a little to see how they respond. THEN let's start adding pieces.

OK, actually, side note. Take off the Orange colored glasses. Looking at the Nationals, what would your suggestion be for them to improve right now.

Why does it have to be all or nothing? Why are there only two paths in some people's eyes: "buy the team" via free agency, or grow it the "right way"? That's just a false choice. On the Tejada thing, I could easily point to other examples where adding free agent talent helped a team get to the playoffs. Generalizing from the signing of Tejada and Lopez that all "big FA" signings are bad makes no sense.

[allstar1579]

Why does it have to be all or nothing? Why are there only two paths in some people's eyes: "buy the team" via free agency, or grow it the "right way"? That's just a false choice. On the Tejada thing, I could easily point to other examples where adding free agent talent helped a team get to the playoffs. Generalizing from the signing of Tejada and Lopez that all "big FA" signings are bad makes no sense.

I guess you just had some preconceived thought in your head when you wrote this in response to my post because it doesn't have anything to do with what I said.

I said in my post that it needs to be both ways, but it's about the timing. It does no good to waste money on FA when you don't have the core to go with them yet. You have a limited time window on the cheap controllable core you need, so you have to time them correctly with the additional pieces.

Name a FA signing that helped THIS team get to the playoffs. Or a team that was a top drafting team that went to the playoffs the next year after signing a big FA.

No one is saying all FA are bad, but wasting limited resources on FA when you still need a ton of other players isn't a smart investment.

[Barnaby Graves]

Part of me actually hopes the Orioles get Fielder and win 72 games for the next 4 years just to see how Trea reacts and what the spin would be.

You can't really mean that.

If the Orioles win 72 games a year for the next four years I might die of boredom.

[JTrea81]

Part of me actually hopes the Orioles get Fielder and win 72 games for the next 4 years just to see how Trea reacts and what the spin would be.

I'd say that would pretty much be improbable.

The lowest I'd see us in that span given the talent on our team would be in the low 80s.

I don't see the Orioles making that investment in Fielder and just stopping there.

Fielder wouldn't be Tejada as he'd be making almost twice as much.

[MrOrange82]

I'd say that would pretty much be improbable.

The lowest I'd see us in that span given the talent on our team would be in the low 80s.

I don't see the Orioles making that investment in Fielder and just stopping there.

Fielder wouldn't be Tejada as he'd be making almost twice as much.

In other words, and correct me if I'm wrong, you're saying that the Orioles cannot be a 85+ win team by signing only Fielder.

[BilboBaggins]

Someone asked me for proof of increased season ticket sales for the Angels based on the Pujols and Wilson signings:

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/mlb/story/_/id/7339334/4000-plus-fans-watch-los-angeles-angels-present-albert-pujols-cj-wilson

In the three days since agreeing to terms with Pujols and Wilson, the Angels have sold more than 1,000 season tickets and received in excess of 500 online orders for ticket packages.

[Scrat1]

I want to hear more about this field goal kicking donkey option.

[SrMeowMeow]

Someone asked me for proof of increased season ticket sales for the Angels based on the Pujols and Wilson signings:

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/mlb/story/_/id/7339334/4000-plus-fans-watch-los-angeles-angels-present-albert-pujols-cj-wilson

Read the article I linked in the OP. Teams see a spike, and then it goes back to normal, unless the team actually starts winning. I'm sure we'd sell season tickets too if we signed Fielder. Then after an 80 win, 4th place season, we'd go back down to where we started.

[JTrea81]

In other words, and correct me if I'm wrong, you're saying that the Orioles cannot be a 85+ win team by signing only Fielder.

That is likely correct depending on the rest of the team's improvement internally. It's possible however if our younger players step up and some of the veterans rebound.

But if we add two premium guys, our chances improve greatly.

Spending money and/or trading our best prospects is the only way this team will compete next season barring huge improvements from the roster.

[SrMeowMeow]

That is likely correct depending on the rest of the team's improvement internally. It's possible however if our younger players step up and some of the veterans rebound.

But if we add two premium guys, our chances improve greatly.

Spending money and/or trading our best prospects is the only way this team will compete next season barring huge improvements from the roster.

Sure, maybe two premium guys gets us to 85+ wins. But then we have a 120M payroll and we're an 85 win team. That's not hard to do. It's also not an accomplishment, and we'd have no room to improve and we'd be in third or fourth place every season. Yay!

[JTrea81]

Sure, maybe two premium guys gets us to 85+ wins. But then we have a 120M payroll and we're an 85 win team. That's not hard to do. It's also not an accomplishment, and we'd have no room to improve and we'd be in third or fourth place every season. Yay!

If we had two premium guys we'd be a 87-90+ win team. 90-95 wins would put you in the 2nd WC or pretty darn close.

We'd certainly be competitive, and the payroll would be high to start but would drop as you lose guys like Roberts and Markakis.

A three year deal to a guy like Beltran or Oswalt would also be off the books and they would hopefully be replaced by guys from our minors.

In effect they would be premium stopgaps.

So you boost the payroll, win more games, get more fans to attend games and then hike the price of tickets to pay for the increased payroll and for extra $ for international signings if you must. This is exactly what the Red Sox did.

I think we'd all pay more to see a winner and a playoff team.

[JTrea81]

Listen, any 10 year old, can say, sign this guy and that guy and we'll be better. We all know that. What we don't know is what kind of contract Oswalt and Beltran would need to sign here and how healthy we can expect them to be over the next 3 years. All of your ideas assume that the Orioles are willing to add another 30M to the current payroll. Why do you assume that is a possibility when Duquette has already said the payroll will pretty much remain status quo?

Duquette has said they'd be willing to expand the payroll if there are situations that they can take advantage of.

And I doubt if they did sign a guy like Fielder, that they would just stop there.

And it may not be just an expansion in payroll but a combination of a FA acquisition and a major trade.

There are numerous possiblities for the Orioles to drastically improve this offseason.

[BilboBaggins]

Read the article I linked in the OP. Teams see a spike, and then it goes back to normal, unless the team actually starts winning. I'm sure we'd sell season tickets too if we signed Fielder. Then after an 80 win, 4th place season, we'd go back down to where we started.

I read the original posting link and I didn't agree with everything stated.

My idea is that the increased revenues = increased interest which = more money and the cycle continues.

It seems that we've accepted the current cycle of awful signings and low expectations to the point where we argue for front office incompetency and frugality.