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Dbacks and Braves agree to Upton deal

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CA-ORIOLE Hangout Grand Counsel

CA-ORIOLE

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So we don't even look at hrs and rbis anymore? ..

No, I really don't. I will look at HR's in the context of sustaining SLG pct.

but you can't just ignore hrs and rbis

Yeah, I pretty much can.

If you can look me in the eye and with a straight face say that you think Betemit can post 30 / 90 if given 500 ABs then I'll walk away

Don't want Betemit to get 500 AB's. If he's getting 500 AB's we've screwed up. I would want Betemit platooning in the same fashion the Yankees successfully platooned two LHB's (Eric Chavez and Raul Ibanez) last year.

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PaulFolk Hangout Grand Counsel

PaulFolk

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This. I really don't understand the people who say Betemit and Kubel are interchangeable players. Kubel was one of the better OFs in the league last year. Betemit was a very poor man's Ty Wigginton.

I don't know where you're coming up with this stuff. Kubel was "one of the better OFs" if you're judging solely on homeruns, maybe, but he didn't do much else. And Betemit was better than Ty Wigginton.

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DoubleStufOriole Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

DoubleStufOriole

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Kubel was worth 0.8 rWAR and 1.9 fWAR last year. He certainly wasn't one of the better OF in the league. His career UZR/150 in LF is -12.7 and in RF is -16.1. That's really bad......Mark Reynolds bad defensively.

I will admit that Kubel isn't great defensively, but if the O's trade for him, he would likely be the "middle of the order DH" that Duquette has been targeting all off-season. In that position, I like him a lot more than a platoon of Betemit and Valencia.

Plus, playing Kubel strictly as a DH would still allow McLouth and Reimold to platoon in LF, serving as 3rd and 4th OF, with Kubel as depth if needed.

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waroriole Hangout Grand Counsel

waroriole

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I will admit that Kubel isn't great defensively, but if the O's trade for him, he would likely be the "middle of the order DH" that Duquette has been targeting all off-season. In that position, I like him a lot more than a platoon of Betemit and Valencia.

Plus, playing Kubel strictly as a DH would still allow McLouth and Reimold to platoon in LF, serving as 3rd and 4th OF, with Kubel as depth if needed.

He's an .841 career OPS against RHP, 17 points higher than Betemit. He also makes 5.5M more than Betemit and will cost players to acquire. Also, look at the numbers matos posted earlier. The recent trend shows that Betemit hits RHP better than Kubel. Neither are good against LHP. The difference is, you can sit Betemit easier against them than Kubel.

As I said earlier, the only way I'd consider Kubel is if Betemit is injured AND AZ pays a few million while requiring very little in return.

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andrewrickli Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

andrewrickli

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I don't think the Dbacks will move Kubel, just to move him. They have a jam and it's going to be one of Upton or Kubel. So to get Kubel, I think it's going to take young pitching.

Are we prepared to give up young pitching for Kubel? I'm not. I'd rather roll with what we have. Now Upton on the other hand....

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DoubleStufOriole Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

DoubleStufOriole

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I don't think the Dbacks will move Kubel, just to move him. They have a jam and it's going to be one of Upton or Kubel. So to get Kubel, I think it's going to take young pitching.

Are we prepared to give up young pitching for Kubel? I'm not. I'd rather roll with what we have. Now Upton on the other hand....

Exactly. I don't think it would be wise to part with a guy like Arrieta, Britton or Matusz in exchange for Kubel. I am only supportive of obtaining him if it's a "steal" kind of deal, which the idea of Betemit and Bridwell would be.

That said, I don't actually think Arizona's asking price for Kubel has fallen THAT far. But, for the sake of responding to the original poster who asked the question, yes, I would definitely take Kubel if he could be had for a reserve corner IF and a pitcher who may never make it to the big leagues.

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DrinkinWithFermi Perennial All-Star

DrinkinWithFermi

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Exactly. I don't think it would be wise to part with a guy like Arrieta, Britton or Matusz in exchange for Kubel. I am only supportive of obtaining him if it's a "steal" kind of deal, which the idea of Betemit and Bridwell would be.

That said, I don't actually think Arizona's asking price for Kubel has fallen THAT far. But, for the sake of responding to the original poster who asked the question, yes, I would definitely take Kubel if he could be had for a reserve corner IF and a pitcher who may never make it to the big leagues.

A steal for AZ maybe- we trade them a DH-type player that doesn't hit lefties well and is best suited to a platoon making less than $2 million and a prospect for a DH-type player that doesn't hit lefties well(.691 career OPS vs. LHPs) making almost $8 million.

This is all silly anyway- they won't trade him for Betemit, and I doubt DD has much real interest to begin with.

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andrewrickli Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

andrewrickli

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On a Hot Stove video (on the orioles main page) Jim Duquette said that he has heard a possible 3 team deal looking like this:

BAL- Kubel

DET-Johnson

AZ-Porcello

Now he didn't say if prospects were involved, he just gave these three names.

I don't like this deal at all, as is.

http://baltimore.orioles.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=25564215&c_id=mlb

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andrewrickli Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

andrewrickli

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I like the sound of this...though I'd prefer to hear the O's were working on Upton!

Me too. I like Upton and I would try and headline Schoop in it. Dbacks seem to like SS's. Even though they received one from CLE.

Schoop and some young pitching minus Bundy and Gausman. If it doesn't work, move on.

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