So how about Brian Roberts today?

[Barnaby Graves]

And if Roberts had put up a 310/370/450 line last year in 60 abs you'd be cool using that as his baseline of performance for 2013?

It would tell me he had a pulse at least.

[Pickles]

It would tell me he had a pulse at least.

And if people were saying the totality, or at least the majority, of his projection for 13 should be based on it, as it seems to me you're coming perilously close to doing w his 60 abs in 12 cause it supports your point, you'd still be cool with it?

[Pickles]

When somebody else feels the need to do it, I'll respond in kind.

I haven't noted anyone saying we should pull the plug on Roberts now and/or not let it play out in ST. We've carried him on the 40 man roster for 2 seasons now, I think we all want to see it play out. What we don't want (at least what I'm fearfull of) is politics playing into it.

Well, obviously politics are going to play into it, as they do in every walk of life.

And no, you're right, nobody is suggesting outright cutting Roberts right now. But I do think some may be shoveling dirt on his grave a little prematurely. That's all.

[El Gordo]

Fair enough and thank you for the correction, but as someone who has followed the O's for many years, you should know by now that his arm has always been below average, and age more than likely makes it worse, and arm strength matters a lot - especially when you need a double play, and your 2nd baseman can't turn it.

So do you think two throwing E's a year is below average?

[kl8ton]

Struck a nerve, eh? Sorry if you lost your glasses.

[Pickles]

So do you think two throwing E's a year is below average?

Well, clearly, more than throwing Es go into evaluating a player's arm.

That said, I've always felt while overall Brob had a below average arm, it was more than adequate for 2nd base.

Let me let people in on a little hint: Most second basemen have below average arms. It's often the very reason they're at 2nd base.

[Barnaby Graves]

And if people were saying the totality, or at least the majority, of his projection for 13 should be based on it, as it seems to me you're coming perilously close to doing w his 60 abs in 12 cause it supports your point, you'd still be cool with it?

This thread was started because he had two doubles in spring training so I feel pretty good about my relative mountain of reasons why he will not be very good. 60some at-bats last year, a couple the year before, injury, age.

[CA-ORIOLE]

So do you think two throwing E's a year is below average?

Failed DP's don't usually show up as errors.

[Barnaby Graves]

His point was that no matter what Roberts does, the haters (ie: yourself) will never own up. And he's right, obviously, since you're continuing to completely sidestep anything remotely involving yourself being wrong.

lol what sorcery is this? What have I been wrong about in this thread?

Again, I have no problem admitting I'm wrong if BRob tanks this year.

I don't care about you. Can you f'n read?

Somehow, I don't think the same goes for you if BRob does well. You will most likely just say "at least we got some use out of him after that terrible contract" or some other such comment that you perceive as wity.

With that, I'm done on the topic.

I'll chalk up your stupid posts to spring fever I guess since you're not the first to do this crap.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Well, clearly, more than throwing Es go into evaluating a player's arm.

That said, I've always felt while overall Brob had a below average arm, it was more than adequate for 2nd base.

Let me let people in on a little hint: Most second basemen have below average arms. It's often the very reason they're at 2nd base.

The point is to relate the players by their respective position/performance.

[Pickles]

This thread was started because he had two doubles in spring training so I feel pretty good about my relative mountain of reasons why he will not be very good. 60some at-bats last year, a couple the year before, injury, age.

As I've said, I think it's fair to be quite pessimistic about Roberts' chances of contributing this year, for the reasons you list.

However, nobody was penciling him into the all-star game based on 2 abs in a ST game. You seem to be making the much more sweeping statement imo.

[Pickles]

The point is to relate the players by their respective position/performance.

I agree. And by that token, it's a pretty big stretch to say Roberts has a below average or poor arm.

[El Gordo]

Join date: February 2013.

lol, what is his point? I must've missed all the crow-eating from the Roberts advocates.

Anyone who declares categorically that a player is finished without access to any medical information, knowledge of his workouts, or what kind of shape he is in, with out actually seeing him play, gaging his bat speed, range etc, is a Bozo in my book. They are making pronouncements based on nothing. I prefer to base my judgements on actually seeing him play. Yesterday was my first chance to do that, and it was encouraging, but certainly he is no sure thing to come back.

[CA-ORIOLE]

I agree. And by that token, it's a pretty big stretch to say Roberts has a below average or poor arm.

The metircs are mixed with the trends pointing to negative. Yes, I know you don't like defensive metrics.

[Barnaby Graves]

However, nobody was penciling him into the all-star game based on 2 abs in a ST game.

No but they are making some pretty darn optimistic predictions of his performance based on 2 ABs in a ST game and magical thinking based on him doing a few months of squats.

You seem to be making the much more sweeping statement imo.

Which is what? I mean you said it yourself, I'm not really going that far out on the limb, I think.