So how about Brian Roberts today?

[El Gordo]

I think that lurking on fan message boards would be doing his due diligence as someone that reports on the team for a living.

Really if I had to write something every dasy I'd be scouring the message boards looking for hot topics. But I must say Steve isn't reading very closely if he doesn't understand where the nasty comments come from. I explained it quite thoroughly in post #122 in this thread. They hate him because he's short but still gets the girls.

[CA-ORIOLE]

At least Melewski defined the comments as "almost nasty".

[Can_of_corn]

I don't disagree with you.

Glad to hear it...

I also think that he should support local sites like this and if he hasn't yet sign up for a plus membership.

[El Gordo]

2010-2012 have mostly smaller sizes. Overal UZR is neg - DRS is Pos. Trends 2004-2009 appear generally negative to me. I think he has good fundamentals around the bag though. Arm strength is a factor in range as well. Roberts is sound fundamentally, but I think your projection of a possible -8 to -10 (full season) probably isn't that far off. Observationally, I would call his arm as below average for a second baseman.

Well I think the two things a 2B needs from his arm is accuracy and the ability to turn the DP. Strength and the abilty to make the throw from behind the bagis a plus, but that's not as important IMO. Those are balls that few 2B get to frequently. I think Roberts' big problem will be first step and range. But some of that can be compensated by positioning. The bottom line is how good his bat can be. If he posts his 2003 numbers with a sub -10 RS then he will be an upgrade over Andino.

[Barnaby Graves]

The bolded is what I'm referring to as sweeping statements that are not actually facts.

You're presenting your opinion, imo, quite strongly, where I can see why people would take umbrage w it.

Now, if you want to say Roberts has a long shot of being a solid regular for us this year, I'd agree 100%. But to act as if it's a forgone conclusion is just wrong. Again, solely my opinion.

Of course they're not facts... not yet anyway. They're just predictions and they'll be tested in time. Probably within the first two months we'll see if they sink or float although even if he does well I'd be anxious to see him play a full season at a good level.

And I am trying to use language proportional to the situation. He was absolutely a disaster last year I think we can all agree. There are no foregone conclusions in baseball, I think that goes without saying. I just see no reason to qualify it with "but hey he could also OPS .800, ya never know!"

[tilgaham]

If Brian Roberts can even come close to approximating 2010 (1.1 WAR), it will be a huge shot in the arm. I fully expect Casilla or Flaherty to be playing 2B by June, but it would be huge.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Well I think the two things a 2B needs from his arm is acurracy and the abilikty to turn the DP. Strength and the abilty to make the throw from behind the bag but that's not as important IMO, those are balls that few 2B get to frequently. Ithink Roberts big problem will be first step and range. Bu t some of that can be compensated by positioning. The bottom line is how good his bat can be. If he posts his 2003 numbers with a sub -10 RS then he will be an upgrade over Andino.

I don't disagree with any of that.

[El Gordo]

Of course they're not facts... not yet anyway. They're just predictions and they'll be tested in time. Probably within the first two months we'll see if they sink or float although even if he does well I'd be anxious to see him play a full season at a good level.

And I am trying to use language proportional to the situation. He was absolutely a disaster last year I think we can all agree. There are no foregone conclusions in baseball, I think that goes without saying. I just see no reason to qualify it with "but hey he could also OPS .800, ya never know!"

What you fail to seem to consider is that his that disaster resulted at least in part from the inability to condition himself over the winter because of the concussion symptoms, his poor play was a result of the poor conditioning, and very likely the hip injury could have also been a result of lack of conditioning. You seem to think all these thing stem naturally from his age. I don't think that is clear at all.

[Can_of_corn]

What you fail to seem to consider is that his that disaster resulted at least in part from the inability to condition himself over the winter because of the concussion symptoms, his poor play was a result of the poor conditioning, and very likely the hip injury could have also been a result of lack of conditioning. You seem to think all these thing stem naturally from his age. I don't think that is clear at all.

Isn't it on him for coming back to play before being physically ready?

[Pickles]

Of course they're not facts... not yet anyway. They're just predictions and they'll be tested in time. Probably within the first two months we'll see if they sink or float although even if he does well I'd be anxious to see him play a full season at a good level.

And I am trying to use language proportional to the situation. He was absolutely a disaster last year I think we can all agree. There are no foregone conclusions in baseball, I think that goes without saying. I just see no reason to qualify it with "but hey he could also OPS .800, ya never know!"

I agree, but you present them as facts, and that's what people are taking offense to.

[Barnaby Graves]

What you fail to seem to consider is that his that disaster resulted at least in part from the inability to condition himself over the winter because of the concussion symptoms, his poor play was a result of the poor conditioning, and very likely the hip injury could have also been a result of lack of conditioning.

I considered his extra conditioning but I think people are overestimating the bump it'll give him. This guy's got a lot of wear-and-tear injuries and how much stronger is he going to get at 35? This is why people do steroids and why the guys who come off them fall apart (not insinuating he is cheating, just talking biology).

You seem to think all these thing stem naturally from his age. I don't think that is clear at all.

Being less able to recover definitely stems from age though. And I haven't even brought up his concussions, for the sake of conversation and since I have no evidence, I'm assuming he's recovered from those. But if he's not back from those 100% that's another thing that'll drag him down.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Isn't it on him for coming back to play before being physically ready?

.. or on the team playing him anyways for 17 games ...... which is the part that scares me.

[Barnaby Graves]

I agree, but you present them as facts, and that's what people are taking offense to.

People seem to want to be offended a lot, I don't know how else they could take a prediction as a fact :laughlol:

Isn't it on him for coming back to play before being physically ready?

He can't pencil himself into a lineup. I realize it's still more complex than that... 10 million reasons to play and everything.

[Pickles]

.. or on the team playing him anyways for 17 games ...... which is the part that scares me.

C'mon. If it was a guy w no track record who'd been playing brilliantly for 17 games and they didn't hand him a spot in the lineup (pretty much analogous to Roberts situation in the inverse) you'd be praising them for it.

We can't too many hard conclusions from 17 games. You know that.

[Can_of_corn]

People seem to want to be offended a lot, I don't know how else they could take a prediction as a fact :laughlol:

He can't pencil himself into a lineup. I realize it's still more complex than that... 10 million reasons to play and everything.

Do you think that if Roberts had gone to Buck and DD and said that he thought he needed a couple more weeks in the minors to be fully prepared they would have refused him?