So how about Brian Roberts today?

[CA-ORIOLE]

So you just pick out the one of his concussion-riddled seasons to prove your point? To give you credit at least you picked the injured-laden season with the most ABs, that makes it more credible, right?

C'mon man. Why not go back one more season to 2009 where he hit 56 doubles, had an OBP of .350 and stole 30 bases for us? Or the year before in 2008 when he had a WAR of over 5? Yes, I would take 75% of that over Alexi Casilla, a 28 year old with a career OPS of what... .630?

Seriously, all that most of you want to do is gripe about the past 3 seasons where the man could barely get out of bed without being dizzy.

I've been rooting for him to come back since day 1. Now I'm rooting for him more than ever so most of you can eat crow.

Just asking for a definiton. You think Brob is capable of stepping in this year and being a 3.75 WAR guy. Thanks for being specific. I think you're completely way off in your assessment, but it would be great if you were right. I hope you will have me eating crow come September. I also hope I win the Powerball Lottery. I'm not rooting for any Orioles player to be bad. I'm realistic and I want the team to win with the best players.

[Ohfan67]

I've got another one... Do you know who the four players are to ever have three or more seasons with 50+ doubles? Ever? In MLB history?

Okay, I'll spot you three and you fill in the fourth: Stan Musial, Tris Speaker and Paul Waner (all in the Hall).

That's nice and all, but I wouldn't want Musial, Speaker, or Waner playing second base for the orioles this year. Because they are dead. Unfortunately, because of all the injuries what Brob did four or five years ago is about as relevant as what these guys did decades ago. I love Brian. I hope he is come back player of the year. But at this point in his career he is what he is...an old player recovering from multiple serious injuries who hasn't been a full time player in three years. He's 35 so if he's healthy he may be able to produce. But the odds are not on his side.

[markakis8]

Odd how you keep wanting to talk about what Roberts did four and five years ago but at the same time you are fixated with Cassila's down year last year. Admittedly he doesn't have the bat Roberts had in his prime but he does have some league average years with the bat which is pretty good when you factor in the upgrade in speed and defense.

I'm not fixated on Casilla's down year last year. You gave me 21 of 22 steals last year, so I gave you his OPS #'s from the same year. Pick any year of his. He has a CAREER OPS of .639 in over 1750 PA's. Brian Roberts had a .646 OPS in the 3 years he was dealing with all the injuries.

[CA-ORIOLE]

I'm not fixated on Casilla's down year last year. You gave me 21 of 22 steals last year, so I gave you his OPS #'s from the same year. Pick any year of his. He has a CAREER OPS of .639 in over 1750 PA's. Brian Roberts had a .646 OPS in the 3 years he was dealing with all the injuries.

Defense does actually count for something.

[markakis8]

Just asking for a definiton. You think Brob is capable of stepping in this year and being a 3.75 WAR guy. Thanks for being specific. I think you're completely way off in your assessment, but it would be great if you were right. I hope you will have me eating crow come September. I also hope I win the Powerball Lottery. I'm not rooting for any Orioles player to be bad. I'm realistic and I want the team to win with the best players.

I'm realistic as well. I never said Brian Roberts is going to be a 3.75 WAR player, I never said he was going to be healthy for the entire season. Read what I wrote. I said I would take 75% of the old Brian Roberts instead of 100% of the current Alexi Casilla or any other back up 2B option we have.

I'm not telling you what Brian Roberts IS going to do. Almost everyone here has completely written him off and has no faith in him. I think he deserves everyone's support.

The constant negativity - even in his positive performances is irritating. I mean his first at bat he hits a double, gets to 3rd b/c he made the pitcher balk, and scores a run and the comment we get out of that is (paraphrasing) well it was a hanging curveball a high schooler could have hit.

The entire reason I started this thread was to point out how encouraging it was that he hit 2 doubles and scored 2 runs, like the old BRob. I mean, that's better than him going 0 for 2 with 2 strikeouts right? It's encouraging to see! Who cares if it's a spring training game against the Yankees AA bullpen. It's encouraging to see!

But no, the first comment was something to the effect of a poor throw on a double play that wasn't even an error.

[weams]

I was using it as a reference to how quickly people forgot how good he was for us and not what he was capable of doing today - although I still think he can do 35-40 2B.

Four years can bring quite the decline even without the devastating injuries that would end every career not supported by a 40 million dollar contract.

[markakis8]

Defense does actually count for something.

I'm sorry, I'd rather have a mediocre fielding 2B with an OPS of .750 to .800 than a great defender with an OPS of .640.

[markakis8]

Four years can bring quite the decline even without the devastating injuries that would end every career not supported by a 40 million dollar contract.

Again, when I was reminding people (in the other thread) how good he was for us, it was more to reflect that we should wish him the best and be encouraged by the fact he's doing what he can to come back and help this team instead of finding every little negative thing we can about him.

He's not a lost cause.

[Can_of_corn]

But no, the first comment was something to the effect of a poor throw on a double play that wasn't even an error.

You are right it wasn't an error. Just like it wasn't an error when he couldn't turn the double play in his first game this spring.

Still a reason for concern.

[markakis8]

You are right it wasn't an error. Just like it wasn't an error when he couldn't turn the double play in his first game this spring.

Still a reason for concern.

Man you are so pessimistic.

[CA-ORIOLE]

I'm realistic as well. I never said Brian Roberts is going to be a 3.75 WAR player, .

75% of 5 WAR is 3.75 WAR. How are you going to have me eat crow when you're now not going to project anything?

I'm not telling you what Brian Roberts IS going to do. Almost everyone here has completely written him off and has no faith in him. I think he deserves everyone's support.

So we have to be some sort of romantic dreamer to support him? What difference does it make and why are you chastising others for thinking he won't be very good based on observation, analysis and signifiacnt factors agaisnt him? Our support doesn't mean squat anyways, it's the organization that counts and my concern (similar to COC's) is that the organziation doesn't make a decision based on feelings over what is best for the team. Seems to me your not very concerned about the success of the team (how do you like your own crap thrown back at you?).

The constant negativity - even in his positive performances is irritating. I mean his first at bat he hits a double, gets to 3rd b/c he made the pitcher balk, and scores a run and the comment we get out of that is (paraphrasing) well it was a hanging curveball a high schooler could have hit.

Interesting that you omitted that I thought his second double was very impressive. Could that be you being purposely negative?

Because people want want to assess things realistically doesn't mean it's constant negativity.

[MurphDogg]

75% of 5 WAR is 3.75 WAR. How are you going to have me eat crow when you're now not going to project anything?

When he said 75 percent of old Brian Roberts did you really think he meant 75 percent of the WAR of his second best season? Or would a more reasonable conclusion be 75 percent of Roberts from 2003-09 (all of the seasons he played more than 80 games)? Because that Roberts averaged a 3.8 WAR.

[Can_of_corn]

I'm sorry, I'd rather have a mediocre fielding 2B with an OPS of .750 to .800 than a great defender with an OPS of .640.

What makes you think he can hit 750-800?

Lets looks at what Roberts did compared to the rest of baseball his last few healthy seasons.

2007- 808 OPS L-Avg 761

2008- 828 OPS L-Avg 749

2009- 807 OPS L-Avg 751

Roughly 50-55 points over league average. Good, solid hitter.

2012 League OPS 724. If Roberts doesn't decline at all from his 2007-2009 level we are still looking at 774-779 based on last season's level of offense.

Your offensive projections are unrealistic.

[markakis8]

75% of 5 WAR is 3.75 WAR. How are you going to have me eat crow when you're now not going to project anything?

Why do I have to project something to be encouraged by him? All I was saying is that I would rather have 75% of the old BRob instead of our other options. It's that simple.

So we have to be some sort of romantic dreamer to support him? What difference does it make and why are you chastising others for thinking he won't be very good based on observation, analysis and signifiacnt factors agaisnt him? Our support doesn't mean squat anyways, it's the organization that counts and my concern (similar to COC's) is that the organziation doesn't make a decision based on feelings over what is best for the team. Seems to me your not very concerned about the success of the team (how do you like your own crap thrown back at you?).

I'm not chastising others for thinking he won't be very good. Every Orioles fan has their right with their skepticism. I am skeptical too. I'm chastising those saying they would rather have weaker players out on the field than him and those that infuse their pessimism in what is optimistic.

Interesting that you omitted that I thought his second double was very impressive. Could that be you being purposely negative?

Because people want want to assess things realistically doesn't mean it's constant negativity.

Fine, if you were the one that made the comment about the high schooler, yes I remember you saying his second double was impressive. Still does not take away from the fact that the first comment you posted was something negative about a positive, which was my entire point. And it's not just you, there are many fans here doing it. It baffles me.

bolded are my responses.

[Enjoy Terror]

I'm sorry, I'd rather have a mediocre fielding 2B with an OPS of .750 to .800 than a great defender with an OPS of .640.

Just ask the Braves.