TT: Arrieta takes lead in 5th starter competition

[Il BuonO]

Here's Buck's thoughts on Jake today:

"Good," Showalter said of Arrieta's start today. "I don't mean to be picky or anything, but that's an outing, carrying that kind of stuff, that he should go deep. Think he had seven three-ball counts. Only had, I think, eight of 20 first-pitch strikes. So there is room for improvement, but that tells you how good his stuff was today because he got by with it.

"I don't mean to be picky with Jake, but he gets in some counts that he shouldn't get that far in. Until he does that, he's not going to give that eight or nine innings when he should on a given night."

http://www.masnsports.com/steve_melewski/2013/03/showalter-addresses-rotation-competition-after-3-1-win.html

Get that? He doesn't want to be picky, but he said it twice. You better pay attention, Jake, because if memory serves me he said it last time you threw also.

[kyleott]

Here's Buck's thoughts on Jake today:

"Good," Showalter said of Arrieta's start today. I don't mean to be picky or anything, but that's an outing, carrying that kind of stuff, that he should go deep. Think he had seven three-ball counts. Only had, I think, eight of 20 first-pitch strikes. So there is room for improvement, but that tells you how good his stuff was today because he got by with it.

"I don't mean to be picky with Jake, but he gets in some counts that he shouldn't get that far in. Until he does that, he's not going to give that eight or nine innings when he should on a given night."

http://www.masnsports.com/steve_melewski/2013/03/showalter-addresses-rotation-competition-after-3-1-win.html

Get that? He doesn't want to be picky, but he said it twice. You better pay attention, Jake, because if memory serves me he said it last time you threw also.

It seems to me that Buck is holding Arrieta to a higher standard because of his potential.

[sevastras]

It seems to me that Buck is holding Arrieta to a higher standard because of his potential.

He treats Arrieta different than Matusz. He cottles Matusz and gets on Jake. I think that is Buck reckognizing personalities and working them. Jake really does need to stop throwing so many balls, the Os moto for the past 2 years is throw strikes. Get on board Jake.

[Il BuonO]

There is no coddling of anyone. If Matusz was doing the same thing he'd get the same message. Buck may manage players differently according to their personalities but everyone is held to the same standard.

[El Gordo]

How long do we have to wait for Arrieta to learn how to throw strikes?

[Pickles]

How long do we have to wait for Arrieta to learn how to throw strikes?

It isn't even that he doesn't throw strikes; his walk rate last year was acceptable. It's that he doesn't throw quality strikes, he falls behind, and then he grooves one and it goes back out harder than it came in.

I've said it several times but I'm w Frobby and others on this: I don't think Arrietta has the best stuff of the cavalry. I might even go so far as to say he has the worse, despite having the best velocity. Matusz and Tillman have something he doesn't: A change. And I think Britton's fastball is better.

[scOtt]

It isn't even that he doesn't throw strikes; his walk rate last year was acceptable. It's that he doesn't throw quality strikes, he falls behind, and then he grooves one and it goes back out harder than it came in.

I've said it several times but I'm w Frobby and others on this: I don't think Arrietta has the best stuff of the cavalry. I might even go so far as to say he has the worse, despite having the best velocity. Matusz and Tillman have something he doesn't: A change. And I think Britton's fastball is better.

The only difference I "see" in Jake this year is that when he falls behind is he's getting out of his own jams so far.

And I haven't seen him myself this year, and it's only 3 or 4 spring starts. But he does have that little positive so far over the past.

[Pickles]

The only difference I "see" in Jake this year is that when he falls behind is he's getting out of his own jams so far.

And I haven't seen him myself this year, and it's only 3 or 4 spring starts. But he does have that little positive so far over the past.

I don't agree really.

The results may be there through 10 innings or whatever, but consistently falling behind hitters is a BIG problem, and he's consistently done it all spring.

[scOtt]

I don't agree really.

The results may be there through 10 innings or whatever, but consistently falling behind hitters is a BIG problem, and he's consistently done it all spring.

Oh I agree! I meant for that to come through in my post, that it's the same old Jake. Just a little better in one aspect this year (so far...) You can't consistently give the opposition extra base runners and expect to be successful.

[Pickles]

Oh I agree! I meant for that to come through in my post, that it's the same old Jake. Just a little better in one aspect this year (so far...) You can't consistently give the opposition extra base runners and expect to be successful.

Yeah, or even good hitter's counts. Like I said, it goes out harder than it comes in.

[UpstateNYfan]

The Jake haters will always find flaws in his performances no matter what the outcome. Flaws that are overlooked in others performances. There are certainly some biases here, lefties are far more intriguing than righties, local kid is more exciting than an "outsider". Jake is certainly frustrating to say the least. I believe BS is a bit frustrated with him too and I wouldn't want to be on Buck's frustrated list. I don't think Jake should be a bull pen guy and I think sending him down to Norfolk would be non-productive and more likely create bad habits against lesser competition. If Jake continues to perform as he has the last three outings and if it is decided he has no place on the opening day roster, I believe he should be traded. It will not be selling low if his spring stats remain good and be best for all involved. Every outing should not have to be an audition. Pitchers have to play loose, trying too hard, squeezing the ball, aiming the ball often leads to poor outcomes.

[Frobby]

He didn't mention anything in his post about velocity. You did. It's more than that.

Well, what is it, then? I don't think his secondary stuff is all that good.

[Frobby]

It isn't even that he doesn't throw strikes; his walk rate last year was acceptable. It's that he doesn't throw quality strikes, he falls behind, and then he grooves one and it goes back out harder than it came in.

I've said it several times but I'm w Frobby and others on this: I don't think Arrietta has the best stuff of the cavalry. I might even go so far as to say he has the worse, despite having the best velocity. Matusz and Tillman have something he doesn't: A change. And I think Britton's fastball is better.

I want to be clear on my position: I like Jake. I think he can be a solid major league starter if he makes a few adjustments. I just don't think he has "TOR potential". He's 27 years old and still struggling with consistency and command. I don't know too many TOR pitchers with that profile.

[Can_of_corn]

I want to be clear on my position: I like Jake. I think he can be a solid major league starter if he makes a few adjustments. I just don't think he has "TOR potential". He's 27 years old and still struggling with consistency and command. I don't know too many TOR pitchers with that profile.

Randy Johnson was still walking 6+ guys per 9 at that age but he is the only one I can think of.

[UpstateNYfan]

This is just a silly comment. It's got nothing to do with hating Jake. It's got to do with looking past the results and seeing an underlying problem. Sports is an audition. Playing in the minors is an audition. You don't think Miguel Gonzalez was auditioning every start he made last year? Matusz, Britton, and Johnson are auditioning too. If Jake is gripping the ball too hard now then maybe he'll be gripping it too hard with the bases loaded and one out in the 6th inning too. Enough excuses. It's about performing. Jake had a golden opportunity to perform last year, and he blew it. He's getting another chance this spring. He's pitched well but probably not good enough. Trading him now would be selling low, IMO. Of course, we don't know what another team would be willing to give up.

There are haters here despite your belief. Every year from Ramon Hernandez, Melvin Mora, M. Gonzalez (embarrassingly booed at a opening day introductions) Kevin Gregg, Mark Reynolds, even Adam Jones..there is always someone that takes the brunt of criticism and little or no praise when they do well and some that rarely get critiqued. It is the nature of the blog. Jake is certainly worthy of severe criticism for his uneven performance. He is also worthy of something other than he was ok , but... You are usually pretty balanced and I respect and try to look at your perspective openly. IMO opinion, the other two potential number 5 guys have been just uneven as Jake. That's all.