Would you put Machado in the category of Harper/Trout?

[ACDC27]

Without a doubt yes!

[Hallas]

The quote from Simmons could easily describe Machado IMO. And Machado is a better 3B than SS (also IMO), so that should factor into how we're rating him now. I'm not sure anyone makes the barehanded play as consistently as Machado other than Longo. Reaction time is off the charts. Cannon for an arm. Maybe 1 throw out of 20 is off the mark resulting in either nice scoop or an error. Had one instance I can recall where he didn't make a good glove transfer.

Simmons has been clocked at 97 MPH per this article.

From what I've read in the past, +/- 80-85 MPH is considered a 5 arm. (Correct me if I'm wrong.) If Machado was throwing 92-93 (I'm assuming his arm strength has improved since he was graded out at 91 MPH during the draft process), and Simmons, who throws 97, is a 7+ or 8, then I can see why Machado is either a 6+ or 7.

I'm not sure if they are counted in the arm rating, but I have to think that in terms of practical application, once you reach that velocity, other factors will make a larger difference in throwing ability (release, accuracy).

As an aside, I've seen Harper clocked at around 96, so if Simmons is a 7+ then Harper is also a 7+ unless you give different grades for outfielders and infielders.

edit: It doesn't make sense that you'd give a different grade for IF and OF unless the throwing mechanics are different. (which they probably are.) If you can throw the ball 97 MPH on a line in the infield, then it's not a huge challenge to throw the ball 97 MPH with a little more trajectory. Right?

[OriolesHash1]

He is better than both this year.

Defense at third has much more value than outfield defense. Trout might have him beat as he has a bit more power and speed, but the dfense brings machado up.

[El Gordo]

I'm not trying to talk you out of your personal opinion. I think your appraisal of Machado's accuracy and overall arm strength is a bit generous, but if that's what you see then that's what you see. The evaluators BA spoke to disagree to a certain extent, and I think that's worth noting if you want to have an honest appraisal as to how the game views Machado.

Just curious. How recent are your evaluations of Manny? Are they for SS or 3B, and have you seen him a lot this season? Perhaps his play has improved. His bat certainly has.

[Stotle]

Just curious. How recent are your evaluations of Manny? Are they for SS or 3B, and have you seen him a lot this season? Perhaps his play has improved. His bat certainly has.

I watch the O's fairly regularly. The grades I put in the earlier response are higher than the grades I inked pre-draft.

[weams]

I watch the O's fairly regularly. The grades I put in the earlier response are higher than the grades I inked pre-draft.

So. To go in a completely different direction. Do you see Buck pulling a Machado with Schoop if Roberts is done?

[xian4]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>Since coming to the majors on Aug 9, 2012, Machadohas the most assists (178), putouts (68) & total chances (254)of any third baseman</p>— Roch Kubatko (@masnRoch) <a href="

">May 8, 2013</a></blockquote>

<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Stotle]

Simmons has been clocked at 97 MPH per this article.

From what I've read in the past, +/- 80-85 MPH is considered a 5 arm. (Correct me if I'm wrong.) If Machado was throwing 92-93 (I'm assuming his arm strength has improved since he was graded out at 91 MPH during the draft process), and Simmons, who throws 97, is a 7+ or 8, then I can see why Machado is either a 6+ or 7.

I'm not sure if they are counted in the arm rating, but I have to think that in terms of practical application, once you reach that velocity, other factors will make a larger difference in throwing ability (release, accuracy).

As an aside, I've seen Harper clocked at around 96, so if Simmons is a 7+ then Harper is also a 7+ unless you give different grades for outfielders and infielders.

edit: It doesn't make sense that you'd give a different grade for IF and OF unless the throwing mechanics are different. (which they probably are.) If you can throw the ball 97 MPH on a line in the infield, then it's not a huge challenge to throw the ball 97 MPH with a little more trajectory. Right?

IF/OF mechanics are different and utility is different (in that you need the ball to do different things). Harper's arm is an easy 8. There isn't anyone I can think of currently playing that has a better arm in the field.

[El Gordo]

I watch the O's fairly regularly. The grades I put in the earlier response are higher than the grades I inked pre-draft.

But how recent are they; are they based on what you've seen of his play this season?

[Stotle]

But how recent are they; are they based on what you've seen of his play this season?

Yeah, I just put them down today.

Re: hit, his discipline and approach are improved; not convinced he's a .300 guy (on his on-base skills are behind both Harper and Trout).

Re: power, a little more pop than I expected, but not top tier power.

Re: defense, grades better at third than he did at shortstop; better footwork this year than last.

Re: arm, good arm strength; loses some utility w/r/t accuracy because still sorting out lower-half actions; probably tops out at 7.

Re: speed, might end-up below average; still right around average for now.

[Stotle]

So. To go in a completely different direction. Do you see Buck pulling a Machado with Schoop if Roberts is done?

I have no idea. The organization certainly isn't afraid to get aggressive with promotions, so if they think Schoop can handle the mental side, I could see them opting to promote him.

[DrungoHazewood]

Defense at third has much more value than outfield defense.

In what context? Generally, defense at third is about as hard to find as defense in center. Center fielders have about as many chances in a season as a third baseman. I suppose you could say that a +0 LF or +0 RF is less valuable than a +0 third baseman. But a +15 LFer is certainly more valuable than a +0 third baseman. And a slightly above average CFer is more valuable than a slightly below average third baseman.

[RichmondOsFan]

Freakin' Keith Law just tweeted his opinion:

keithlaw ‏@keithlaw 1m

No. RT @andy4jones: @keithlaw Machado 3-4 tonight, .325 avg. fair to put him in trout/ Harper category?

[Can_of_corn]

If he can play at about this level all year then yes, he will be in that conversation. Of course if the O's had him playing his natural position it would help his case.

[isestrex]

Freakin' Keith Law just tweeted his opinion:

keithlaw ‏@keithlaw 1m

No. RT @andy4jones: @keithlaw Machado 3-4 tonight, .325 avg. fair to put him in trout/ Harper category?

keithlaw ‏@keithlaw 5m

Is it necessary? I love Machado but anointing any player on the basis of a good month is silly. RT @rfarren: @keithlaw Can you elaborate?

He has a fair point. This isn't about upside. Harper and Trout have a full season under their belts, Machado doesn't. If Manny keeps this up all season and gets reasonable MVP votes, then we can ask KLaw again.