We seriously need to consider another closer at this point

[CA-ORIOLE]

Didn't we have a top 10 historical bullpen WPA last year?

Wonder what it'll be this year.

Not as good for sure, but I think we can get it together and be a lot better than it's been. We do have a group of guys still performing pretty well and guys that I think that can do better. We may have to make some major adjustments fairly soon though.

[oriolesmagic9]

No. But he can say that he needs to get better. Anything other than "he's my closer and I'm sticking with him". That doesn't just send the wrong message, it sends no message at all.

I understand what you're saying...... this is frustrating to say the least. I'm just suggesting that what he says to us and what he says to the players is probably a little different.

[Barnaby Graves]

Not as good for use, but I think we can get it together and be a lot better than it's been. We do have a group of guys still performing pretty well and guys that I think that can do better. We may have to make some major adjustments fairly soon though.

I'm more worried about Troy Patton's regression than Jim Johnson. As I said, BABIP... Patton's problems are more of the xFIP variety, so to speak.

[Specman]

Looks like Buck is standing by his man. What can I say?

[PaulFolk]

An opinion based around reality.

...

Yet we are only 4 games over .500 because of how poorly then pen has been managed. It has cost us perhaps a dozen games this year that were very winnable. Strop Johnson and Patton have been awful.

Funny. The Orioles have almost exactly the same relievers as they did last year, and Buck has used them in almost exactly the same situations as he did last year. Yet when the pitchers don't do their job, it's his fault?

You say that Strop, Johnson, and Patton have all been awful. Well, guess what -- that's 3 guys out of a 7-man bullpen. Your solution would be, what, to not use any of them in any close games, ever? Good luck with that. Let me know how your 4-man bullpen works out for you.

Buck's handling of the bullpen is no different than it was last year. The fact is that the relievers just aren't performing as well as they did in 2012.

[CA-ORIOLE]

I'm more worried about Troy Patton's regression than Jim Johnson. As I said, BABIP... Patton's problems are more of the xFIP variety, so to speak.

Yeah, I'm pretty much with you here. I was thinking he may need to be one of the first to go.

[Blizzard1090]

I also think it's mental just as much as physical. This year,both Rodney and Johnson even more seem to unravel the minute someone gets on.

After that,the unraveling begins.

[laxdog]

Bullpen in general needs some new blood. Wright in Bowie is 6-0, throws 95, and is a MD boy to boot. It is just one inning, any decent starter can take on the role until JJ gets his act together.

[Jonesy10]

You can live with the SD and NYY blown saves. The TB and TOR games are just unacceptable.

1IP 7H 3BB 10ER

I mean that's just absolutely pathetic. You just don't see closers with games like these, and it happens ALOT for him. Those 2 games already, the Oakland and Minnesota game last year. He just has complete meltdowns which can't happen.

[Specman]

I have a question for all the baseball know-it-alls. What are pitching coaches for? Can't the Orioles brain trust see that Jim Johnson's sinker is not sinking and he has no control of his curve and change-up and the hitters are just sitting on his fastball. This is not nuclear physics. I don't think Showalter can stay with him any longer

[AlbionHero]

You can live with the SD and NYY blown saves. The TB and TOR games are just unacceptable.

1IP 7H 3BB 10ER

I mean that's just absolutely pathetic. You just don't see closers with games like these, and it happens ALOT for him. Those 2 games already, the Oakland and Minnesota game last year. He just has complete meltdowns which can't happen.

You can't help but think its completely a mental thing. He goes into the games thinking he will fail. He just refuses to throw any pitches for the batters to hit since he thinks they will hit them hard (which is how he's supposed to pitch by getting grounders), which makes him nibble outside a lot and get behind batters.

Too bad theres not a DL for mental stuff like that.

[oriolesmagic9]

The more I think about it, the more I want to run JJ out there for the next save opportunity. I know this is an unpopular time and place for that idea, but what the hell. I still believe in him. I don't have any magical reason why, I just do. Blast away.

[CA-ORIOLE]

I have a question for all the baseball know-it-alls. What are pitching coaches for? Can't the Orioles brain trust see that Jim Johnson's sinker is not sinking and he has no control of his curve and change-up and the hitters are just sitting on his fastball. This is not nuclear physics. I don't think Showalter can stay with him any longer

The coaches can't execute pitches for him. Johnson's mechanics aren't exactly textbook and he's often lost his release point even when he was successful.

[TonySoprano]

Funny. The Orioles have almost exactly the same relievers as they did last year, and Buck has used them in almost exactly the same situations as he did last year. Yet when the pitchers don't do their job, it's his fault?

You say that Strop, Johnson, and Patton have all been awful. Well, guess what -- that's 3 guys out of a 7-man bullpen. Your solution would be, what, to not use any of them in any close games, ever? Good luck with that. Let me know how your 4-man bullpen works out for you.

Buck's handling of the bullpen is no different than it was last year. The fact is that the relievers just aren't performing as well as they did in 2012.

IF anyone wants to point fingers outside of the players themselves, it should be on the front office that assumed you can get the same or similar results from a bullpen in back-to-back years. Personally, I put it on the players.

[Norfolk orioles]

And how do you know he's not going to do that? Do you really think that when he says something to the media, that's absolutely the end-all, be-all of the issue? Do you think that he's not having different conversations and addressing issues behind closed doors?

Buck is not the type of manager who, immediately after a heartbreaking loss, would go and slam his players in the media to add salt to the wound. He'll publicly support his guys, as any good manager should, but of course there's a lot going on behind the scenes. He sees the same thing the rest of us are seeing. I would be surprised if Johnson's leash isn't extremely short, no matter what Buck says publicly.

Ok. I understand the media aspect. Fair point. But then if he does bring him back out, and he stinks again, he's REALLY going to lose the fanbase.

He doesn't have a great track record of staying in one place very long. If he's such a well like guy by the players, what has that gotten him besides pink slips?

I like buck, regardless of my criticism, but that doesn't mean he doesn't make mistakes.

Let me put it like this, I'm a New York giants fan (if you want to know why I'm an O's fan and a giants fan you can ask my dad who quit watching football all together when the colts left Baltimore), Tom coughlin has won the giants 2 Super Bowl rings........but he still makes some terrible coaching decisions on occasion and makes the "Tom coughlin face" where he just stares off into oblivion after his team makes another bad mistake. I don't want him fired, but is he above criticism? Absolutely not, and he has 2 rings! 3 or 4 if you count his rings as an assistant coach under parcells.

So yeah, buck had one good year. He pushed all the right buttons. So far this year he's been lousy. He's left Johnson out past 30 pitches several times in a 2-3 week span when everyone and their mother could see his tank was on E.

That's not "supporting your guy".....that's letting him die a slow death.

I'll be interested to see if you are right and he goes to someone else, but I doubt it. Buck's history and modus operandi is that he's extremely stubborn.

He showed us as much with Kevin Gregg, he showed us with strop and now he's showing us with Johnson. He's gonna lose the fanbase and the clubhouse if he doesn't start making some tough decisions. He can't keep costing us games like that, and let their be NO debate, buck cost us that game today, not Jim. Buck had plenty of time with a 3 run lead to see Johnson didn't have it. After the walk to the number 8 hitter and 30 pitches he should have been out of the game.

The best thing buck could do for jim right now is not to "show faith" in him, but instead take the pressure off his shoulders by moving him out of the closer role just on a temporary basis.

Let him work under less tense circumstances and find some command again. Buck is doing him no favors by allowing him to struggle in front of the whole world.

Again this isn't just some recent development. Yeah, he's lost 4 of 5, but before that he was still a very shaky closer. He also blew 2 saves against the Yankees in the playoffs so to just keep sending him out there and pretend this is just a bad week or two he will get over is unfair to him. He's lost command and confidence and yet buck keeps forcing him into pressure packed situations.

I'm sorry, that is NOT good managing!