The negativity has got to stop!!! (MAJOR RANT)

[scOtt]

Where I disagree with the OP is starting a thread mainly to single certain people out. We've all vented a lot of frustration with the way the team has performed in the past six weeks. No one is an honorary crew member with Jim Hunter on the Good Ship Lollipop. However, there are people who consistently don't say much, if anything, in the game threads until the stuff hits the fan, and complain, then wait on the bench until it's time to complain again. If all you have to offer is complaints, then that's where it becomes really tedious.

I lost it today for over an hour. Had to leave the GT and clear my mind... When Chen was sweating bullets and we were down 3-0. Tech never did make a reappearance...

[scOtt]

Those complaining about people being frustrated to realize the term "fan" is short for "fanatic"....correct?

Fanatic- a person filled with excessive and single-minded zeal

Fanatic, yes. Or "Fancier". It's not agreed either way. Just sayin'

[Pat Kelly]

So, Tony asked me to write the game summary for OH on Sundays starting this Sunday. I was honored and agreed. I was watching the game, trying to follow the game thread, interact with the fans, and starting my summary. I simply couldn't do it. Several posters were dominating the thread by simply insulting individuals players, the team, the management, etc... They weren't critiquing the team or even the game situation. The insults were generic "X sucks", "Y is a loser", ... I couldn't do it. I had to leave. It was incredibly disheartening that the discourse had fallen to that level.

So, an emergency came in the top of the 7th and I had to suddenly leave the house to help a friend. I missed the comeback and literally didn't get back to the house until about 9 PM. I got home anxious because I knew I needed to watch the last three innings, finish the summary, and mail it to Weams. I was tired but determined to meet my commitment.

Lo and behold we won and the rampage started just when I left the house. I was really happy. I couldn't help but go back to the game thread where I left off to see how the nasty reactions changed when we had a 7 run inning. I was really disappointed to see a much more muted reaction from these same posters. They posted a couple times, but it was stuff like "Wow" rather than "AJ is great" and the frequency was much, much lower. It was almost as if these posters were less happy that they couldn't go on ranting, raving, and insulting everything.

The main board wasn't much better. To be honest, my desire to write a summary for the masses was crushed by my disappointment in finding that the "fanatics" didn't react nearly as positively when something good happened as when the bad happened. That finding combined with the timing (it was now 10 PM so the news was "stale") and my fatigue led me not to finish my half written summary and submit it to Tony/Weams. I was really disappointed in myself and I told my wife, Rox, as much as we went to bed, but I just couldn't do it.

I got up at 4 AM this morning to finish my write up and send it on to Weams because it was bothering my sleep so much. When I did, I saw that Weams wrote a quick summary and posted it up front. He didn't give me any crap in a PM or e-mail. I also saw this thread which frustrated me all over again, because I see some of the same feelings that have been rolling around in my head / heart expressed by others (which makes me want to contribute, discuss, debate, and be a part of the society) and the same bullheaded silliness expressed by those that don't really understand and/or care that their irrational behavior lowers the enjoyment of others.

Regardless of the reasons for my behavior, at the end of the day, I didn't do what I committed to doing so I want to apologize to Tony and Weams for not following through on my commitment. It won't happen again.

You are one of the reasons this board is worthwhile. Keep the faith. (p.s. we all deal with stress and anxiety in different ways, some better than others - I think for some heckling on OH is a way to cope and perhaps the worst of us (we hope) is left on the pages of this site.)

[barnanimal]

Not that I am a longtime member or anything, but I cancelled my Plus membership last week due to the constant negativity. I really enjoyed the game threads last season and now they have gotten out of hand. In addition to the negative guys there are also some "well-respected" posters that seem to get away with constant negative posts as well.

[TouchemAll]

Only one thing needs said here IGNORE IS YOUR FRIEND

[wildcard]

I think it would be wrong to ban Roy!

Roy is the King of reactionary posts and you will not find a more negative poster after a loss or a more positive poster after a win.

So if you don't like negative posts be like ScOtt and don't visit the OH after a loss.

[Frobby]

Its not that its just negative. Its "the season is over" BS and all the extra crap with fire them fire this etc. There is a difference between, "Wow, Manny has not hit a slider all season." "This team stinks we lose every game the season is over". After every bad play, swing, out. That is what is insanely annoying.

I don't mind people being critical when it's warranted and expressing their opinions. The following things bother me:

1. Posters who basically never have anything positive to say, and just pop on here to make negative remarks whenever something is going wrong.

2. Posters who start threads on the main board mid-game on the assumption that the O's are going to lose that game, when the game is far from out of reach.

3. Posters who write that the Orioles have given up or aren't playing with passion, when clearly the effort is there and the team's late season performance in the last few years warrants giving them the benefit of the doubt on that issue.

4. Personal attacks on players.

We're a long shot to make the playoffs as of now, but far stranger things have happpened in baseball. For me, I'm enjoying the ride.

[Tx Oriole]

I don't mind people being critical when it's warranted and expressing their opinions. The following things bother me:

1. Posters who basically never have anything positive to say, and just pop on here to make negative remarks whenever something is going wrong.

2. Posters who start threads on the main board mid-game on the assumption that the O's are going to lose that game, when the game is far from out of reach.

3. Posters who write that the Orioles have given up or aren't playing with passion, when clearly the effort is there and the team's late season performance in the last few years warrants giving them the benefit of the doubt on that issue.

4. Personal attacks on players.

We're a long shot to make the playoffs as of now, but far stranger things have happpened in baseball. For me, I'm enjoying the ride.

That is the reason I don't go to the GT.

[tntoriole]

I don't know. I find that when my own posts are negative about the performance, during the game, it is because of my own frustration and sometimes it IS just a rant, or a ventilation. It doesn't mean much, because it isn't particularly rational, it is just a spur of the moment way of momentarily blowing off mental steam. And I similarly never really take anybody else's negative or positive posts too seriously as they just don't impact me emotionally very much, if they are positive or negative. The only thing that really bothers me is if somebody calls somebody else on the board a name or uses words like "idiot", etc. Then I think it gets out of bounds, but I think our moderators do a great job of watching for that sort of stuff. But whatever people say about the Orioles, or their performance, positive or negative, on a message board, it just doesn't get my blood pressure up too much. Or, if it does, I can use ignore, or not participate that day, or go mow the grass (which I need to do anyway.)

[Morgan423]

I think that it feels a certain exact way to me, and I'll try a story to demonstrate.

Let's say you live in a large house with several roommates with whom you really get along nicely. You just really gel and you are able to be around each other without problems. Over time you become social, maybe even friends. No one hassles each other, everyone carries their weight. You really like living here and life is good.

One day your landlord shows up and announces that his cousins will be moving in with you since there is still more room in the house. "Okay," you think to yourself. "Maybe these guys will be like my old roomies. Everything will be fine."

Then they move in, and immediately the dynamic changes. One stays up late and plays his music really loudly. He'll have friends arrive to pick him at two in the morning and rather than texting to let him know, they'll honk repeatedly and wake up the whole neighborhood. When confronted about it, he just shrugs and says he can't control what his friends do.

The other new roommate never cleans up after himself, leaves gobbed-up toothpaste residue all up in the basin of the bathroom sink, and pees on the bathroom floor. You politely ask him to start cleaning up after himself and he rolls his eyes and walks off without a word.

The new roommates' personality types are grating to the traditional roommates and over time, even though they learn enough about all of you to know how you are and what you expect of them (as far as your reasonable expectations and in-the-house behavior go), they don't care. When you bring it up one day, one directly tells you as much.

Their cousin lets them stay in the house so you can't kick them out or enforce any other repercussions other than repeatedly voicing your displeasure with their behavior. And for whatever reason, even though you and your other roommates have come to expect basic courtesies from each other, and you communicate this to them constantly, these guys couldn't care less about adapting themselves to the household they've joined... it's all about them and their own selfish needs.

Every new day becomes more and more frustrating as you miss what you used to have in this house, but might never get back again. You know deep down that you've probably lost that forever, and you mourn that loss all the more as time goes on.

THAT is how I've felt this year about the OH. I miss my old house.

[24fps]

Then you see no difference between performance and result. If the Orioles go to the seventh game of the world series, and in the bottom of the ninth, down by a run with two outs and and a runner on base, Adam Jones smashes a shot that goes over the fence, but the center fielder makes a spectacular leap and barely pulls it in on the edge of his webbing for an out, then you would not be satisfied with the performance, but if the ball goes one inch to the side and goes for a winning home run, then you would be satisfied with the performance? So your satisfaction with the Orioles performance for the entire season would come down to the last play and whether the ball goes one inch to the side as it goes over the wall? I'd be satisfied with the performance either way, just not the result if the ball is caught. To differentiate the performance because the ball is one inch to the side and gets caught is an emotional response, not an analytical one. To use your own words, because of that one inch difference, the Orioles would not have "performed adequately."

You can also be satisfied with a team's overall performance, just not a specific one, such as when they won 109 games (their most ever) but lost the world series in 1969. Judging a team by how they do in the post season (i.e. not being satisfied with performance unless they win the world series) is mostly silly since once a team makes the playoffs it's statistically mostly random. The "better" teams are only slight favorites over the "weaker" playoff teams since at this point they are mostly all within ten wins of each other out of a 162 game season.

If the Orioles do not win the world series, I will not be satisfied. But that doesn't mean I'm not satisfied with their performance if they are in it until the end - with the nuance that if they don't win the world series, the top priority is to maximize the chances of winning the world series the next year, which mostly means doing what it takes to maximize their performance the next year. The best team does not always win the world series - see 1969.

"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing". Doesn't leave much room for nuance does it?

That quote was first uttered by Red Sanders in 1950 and popularized by Vince Lomardi during his reign as head coach of the Packers. Since then we've had this message repeatedly beaten into us by every talk-radio yahoo to the point where I no longer expect to read posts like this one. It genuinely comes as a surprise, and a welcome one at that.

The great beauty of baseball IMO is that it doesn't readily lend itself to trite aphorisms no matter how hard people might try. I've enjoyed your posts over the last couple of days.

[Tx Oriole]

Be critical all you want, but watch the words you use--WORDS HAVE MEANING... When you say the O's are a joke, YOU are the joke... Use facts and numbers to support your argument, but don't go out and post:

or proclaim:

This team is NOT pathetic. This team is FAR from being pathetic. We are 9 games over .500, 3 games away from the playoffs. Might seem like a failure to you, who is probably too young to realize what was going on between 1998-2001, but let me assure you that most of us older fans are THRILLED to have our team in the midst or a playoff race with a month of baseball to play.

I agree with you. I think it is worse than it used to be. I wish that those who want

to rant and rave would do that in that section.

[Tony-OH]

The team is 2-10 in one run games since the ASB. Their closer leads the league in blown saves. They had three straight walk-off losses in Arizona after entering the late innings with the lead. And people are surprised that there are some very frustrated fans who might want to let off some steam on a chat board?

When I was in college I read a book by Crane Brinton called "The Anatomy of a Revolution" that studied the American Revolution, French Revolution, Russian Revolution, etc. The book's main thesis is that revolutions happen when there is a sudden turn for the worse after a period of rising prosperity--Brinton calls this phenomenon the "revolution of rising expectations" or something like that.

That's what you're seeing on OH these days--people were excited by last season and the team's good play early in the season, but the sudden spate of frustrating losses since the ASB has left a lot of fans feeling very angry. Not enough to storm OPACY with pitchforks, at least.

Easily the post of the thread IMHO.

[MurphDogg]

I think that I view message boards with a different goal than other people. I don't get anything out of blowing off steam (or reading others when they do this). I want to read about analysis and strategy, something that helps me understand the game better. It doesn't help me to read about how another loss makes any given poster feel.

[weams]

Where I disagree with the OP is starting a thread mainly to single certain people out. We've all vented a lot of frustration with the way the team has performed in the past six weeks. No one is an honorary crew member with Jim Hunter on the Good Ship Lollipop. However, there are people who consistently don't say much, if anything, in the game threads until the stuff hits the fan, and complain, then wait on the bench until it's time to complain again. If all you have to offer is complaints, then that's where it becomes really tedious.

I am very disappointed that we are not ten games better than we are. This is a message board that allows for many opinions, not all of them equal. I only really am troubled by the instigators. The folks who just come here to poke a stick at the bear. I am sure you know, as I do, not everyone here has pure motives or is here for the friendships and the analysis.