The negativity has got to stop!!! (MAJOR RANT)

[Ori-Al]

Maybe my thread about Gonzo and Chen having to earn their way into the rotation next year triggered this.

I don't think Gonzo or Chen are bums or bad guys, but it's irritating to me that they can't go deep into games and everyone worries about their "innings" even though they've both missed a huge chunk of time this year. Maybe I'm just old fashioned because I've been following the team since the late 80s, but I remember a time when most starters had a decent amount of CGs (even CG losses believe it or not) each season and it was what everyone expected. Now all of a sudden starting pitchers are these fragile creatures and we have to watch the pitch counts and limit innings, etc. Maybe I'm just frustrated and irritated by what I see as a cheapening and debasement of the game as a whole over the last few decades. I like Tillman because he seems to be able to get those long inning outings that to me are more of what a starter should be about.

Chen's last two outings have really ticked me off. And they make me really doubt whether he has what it takes to be a consistent starter. I'm really doubting Gonzo too. It's nothing personal -- I doubt they're lazy or jerks or anything -- but they might not be as good as many think they are. If that's "trash talk," then I apologize but I'm not trying to offend anyone.

In my 20+ years as an O's fan, I've seen tons and tons of pitchers that play fairly well for a season or two and then completely fall off (anyone remember Jeff Ballard? Bruce Chen? Daniel Cabrera? Brian Matusz the starter of the future? Zach Britton?). Too many O's starters who start on Opening Day and then go on to have 4-5+ ERAs.

I'm concerned that Chen and Gonzo are going to be guys who have one good season and then totally tank. Maybe if they aren't penciled in for next year they will do what it takes to be consistent, quality starters, or maybe the competition will bring other talent to the fore that can take over and do better. Right now, Gonzo/Chen aren't looking a whole like the next Mike Boddicker, Mike Cuellar, Dave McNally or Scott MacGregor. Looking a whole lot more like the next Daniel Cabrera or Jeff Ballard.

Nice post. IMO, The invention of the six inning quality start plays a role in this. In the not-too-distant past, pitching rotations consisted of four men, who started close to 40 games per season, and were expected to strive to go the entire game every time they started (some pitched well into extra innings on occasion.) Many of those pitchers would pitch 300 or more innings in a season. Now, in an age when athletes are in the best shape ever, baseball now has five-man rotations, allowing three runs or less in six innings (two thirds of a game) is quality, and 200 innings is a great season. From what I've seen, this has not reduced any injury rate, but has resulted in teams four best starters each getting fewer starts every season.

Going back to the original post, I admit that can be negative in game threads. Game threads are posted on in real time, after bad things happen, and after good things happen, for the Orioles. The only way to eliminate negative posts from game threads, in my opinion, is to eliminate game threads. Or, tell the Orioles to only do good things in games, which, of course, no team does. Passionate fans live or die with the Orioles, and we are going to react, some perhaps more over-the-top than they should. I don't know how many of those fans are long-term fans like myself, how many are fans that stop following the Orioles while they were losing and are now back because of last seasons performance, or how many are young people who just became oriole fans in recent years. Whatever the mix is, we're all here on a great board for Orioles fans. As a long-term moderator of several FidoNet echoes (for those remember FidoNet), I understand the difficulty the Hangout Moderators have in trying to keep conversations going between people with differing opinions, without individuals going too far. It is not easy. FidoNet echoes were much easier than this place.

[weams]

Nice post. IMO, The invention of the six inning quality start plays a role in this. In the not-too-distant past, pitching rotations consisted of four men, who started close to 40 games per season, and were expected to strive to go the entire game every time they started (some pitched well into extra innings on occasion.) Many of those pitchers would pitch 300 or more innings in a season. Now, in an age when athletes are in the best shape ever, baseball now has five-man rotations, allowing three runs or less in six innings (two thirds of a game) is quality, and 200 innings is a great season. From what I've seen, this has not reduced any injury rate, but has resulted in teams four best starters each getting fewer starts every season.

Going back to the original post, I admit that can be negative in game threads. Game threads are posted on in real time, after bad things happen, and after good things happen, for the Orioles. The only way to eliminate negative posts from game threads, in my opinion, is to eliminate game threads. Or, tell the Orioles to only do good things in games, which, of course, no team does. Passionate fans live or die with the Orioles, and we are going to react, some perhaps more over-the-top than they should. I don't know how many of those fans are long-term fans like myself, how many are fans that stop following the Orioles while they were losing and are now back because of last seasons performance, or how many are young people who just became oriole fans in recent years. Whatever the mix is, we're all here on a great board for Orioles fans. As a long-term moderator of several FidoNet echoes (for those remember FidoNet), I understand the difficulty the Hangout Moderators have in trying to keep conversations going between people with differing opinions, without individuals going too far. It is not easy. FidoNet echoes were much easier than this place.

Read This

[fansince71]

The internet is full of hate, if that bothers you then you shouldn't frequent the game thread.

I will visit the GT every now and then just for the entertainment value.

[Mizerooskie]

Just read the OP for the first time, and I've gotta say, that's the type of post that has got to stop.

Creating a new thread to both specific posters and a large portion of the forum (those that are negative) is so far out of bounds.

Have a problem with people's posts? Respond to those posts, or better yet, give them negative rep. Don't pull this holier-than-thou crap and attack them (going so low as to name names) in a whole new thread.

It creates an unnecessarily combative atmosphere, pollutes the board with a worthless thread, and likely violates numerous site rules.

I, for one, hope you go back to listserv.

[Mizerooskie]

*Should be 'Creating a new thread to bash both specific posters and a large portion of the forum'.

Would a mod be so kind as to delete one of the duplicate posts?

[larrytt]

"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing". Doesn't leave much room for nuance does it?

Of course it does. Winning is the only thing to strive for. And when you don't win, you should not be satisfied with the result. But there is a difference between judging performance and judging results, as I've explained several times.

[Three Run Homer]

See this is my problem: The anger.

Why anger?

I get disappointment. I get disillusionment. Hell I even get depression - but anger?

Why get so angry about something you literally, in the purest sense of the word, have no control over? Do people honestly believe that the team does not know it had struggled with RISP for a couple weeks? Do you think Adam Jones goes up there looking to strike out? Do people genuinely believe that Wieters just decided to save the hellfire for when he is in a bigger market?

I don't get the anger.

its not just the anger, it is the fatalism that comes with it. Roy's weekly "We are not going to win" thread. The countless threads that use the worst convoluted logic to further some dumb agenda. Just the willingess to pack it in is astonishing. If people had really been steeled by a decade of losing you think they would be made of stronger stuff.

The division is probably out of reach. Aw shucks.

The team is three games out of the playoffs on September 2. The last time I checked that meant that they were well in it. you think Cleveland fans think they are out of it? You think Yankee fans think they are out of it?

Suck it up people. Its a playoff race. Its going to be nerve racking. Its not football, it drags on and it has far more moving parts.

Great question--why get angry over things beyond your control? Getting angry over a baseball team losing is just like getting angry at slow traffic--it's pointless, unproductive, makes you look stupid and is dangerous for your health. But as sure as there's an epidemic of road rage in America, there are also millions of sports fans who let their emotional state hinge on whether their team wins or loses. It's not a healthy way to live but it's hard to kick the habit once you're used to it.

[weams]

Just read the OP for the first time, and I've gotta say, that's the type of post that has got to stop.

Creating a new thread to both specific posters and a large portion of the forum (those that are negative) is so far out of bounds.

Have a problem with people's posts? Respond to those posts, or better yet, give them negative rep. Don't pull this holier-than-thou crap and attack them (going so low as to name names) in a whole new thread.

It creates an unnecessarily combative atmosphere, pollutes the board with a worthless thread, and likely violates numerous site rules.

I, for one, hope you go back to listserv.

Calling people out specifically is never the way we wish these subjects to be approached.

[orioleslist]

Don't pull this holier-than-thou crap and attack them (going so low as to name names) in a whole new thread.

It creates an unnecessarily combative atmosphere, pollutes the board with a worthless thread, and likely violates numerous site rules.

I, for one, hope you go back to listserv.

Calling people out specifically is never the way we wish these subjects to be approached.

I acknowledged in an earlier post today that naming names was a mistake. I wish Mizerooksie, whom I thank for his contribution to this thread, had taken note. I'll add that while I am the first to admit that the tone of my original message should have been more civil, many forum members seem to be in agreement with the content of the post.

[LA2]

The internet is full of hate, if that bothers you then you shouldn't frequent the game thread.

I will visit the GT every now and then just for the entertainment value.

I know the Duyvil made you say that, but I think it's unwise to deny the plain fact that there are plenty of enthusiastically used social media sites that are not "full of hate," especially hatred or despising of the very topic or object of which the members are supposedly avid supporters. Of course, there are bound to be people who possess a perverse relation to the topic or group, but it's within the rights of concerned members to question their participation and within the power of the moderators to try to rectify or exclude them.

[Mizerooskie]

I acknowledged in an earlier post today that naming names was a mistake. I wish Mizerooksie, whom I thank for his contribution to this thread, had taken note. I'll add that while I am the first to admit that the tone of my original message should have been more civil, many forum members seem to be in agreement with the content of the post.

I took note, and it doesn't matter. You knew what you were doing wasn't kosher when you were writing the first post, hence the comment about the mods.

It was just as juvenile (if not more) as the type of posting you so despise.

If you start throwing around racial epithets, only to apologize for it later, does it excuse the behavior? Of course not.

[scOtt]

The internet is full of hate, if that bothers you then you shouldn't frequent the game thread.

I will visit the GT every now and then just for the entertainment value.

And CERTAINLY no offense meant to you because I'm also a fansince71.

The point is the game threads used to be so much more fun, and funny. Good analytical posters you could talk baseball with are being driven away.

[OFFNY]

And CERTAINLY no offense meant to you because I'm also a fansince71.

The point is the game threads used to be so much more fun, and funny. Good analytical posters you could talk baseball with are being driven away.

Me too. October of 1971 is when I became an Oriole fan.

[Why Not?]

Agree with the OP. I don't visit the board nearly as much as I used to because the ratio of knee-jerk responses to reasoned, intelligent responses has multiplied. I guess the irony is that the team has improved and the fans are less happy. Oh well, whatcha gonna do?

[24fps]

I took note, and it doesn't matter. You knew what you were doing wasn't kosher when you were writing the first post, hence the comment about the mods.

It was just as juvenile (if not more) as the type of posting you so despise.

If you start throwing around racial epithets, only to apologize for it later, does it excuse the behavior? Of course not.

This post is one of the most deftly handled smears I've seen in a long time. Impressive.