Send Ubaldo To The BP

[Barnaby Graves]

Man, you realize I started this thread and you have been agreeing with the premise I put forth from the beginning right?

Ok, man this gets exhausting sometimes.

I thought you made that smiley because you thought I was being disingenuous.

I talked baseball, tried to make nice, and then a mod slapped me. I try not to care about the internet but basically I feel right now like I'm trying to talk baseball and people are getting pissy that I'm not just saying "2 earned runs, all good." Especially coming from Scott and Mr Orange because they are some of my favorite people. I mean why are we even here. I get all the rep in the world for stupid posts about fruit and Dustin Pedroia secretly being a dwarf geomancer, I try to say Ubaldo wasn't actually good today and people are mad.

And again I'll reiterate, I don't think Scott is a stupid person, and why would anyone think that I think that?

[SteveO]

Why stop there. Take every start he's ever had, remove all non-0 ER results, and say he's never allowed an earned run.

Umm....your being a little melodramatic. Somehow I think removing one start since May does not equate to removing all the non-0 ER results. So basically any information that is statistical and yet disagrees with your assertions really does not matter huh. Prior to the last start were he got bombed, since May 1st he had a 2.97 but ya he sucks

If we are talking about who should be in the rotation NOW and who is pitching pretty well now, Jimenez numbers since May 1st have been decent even though he has not really gotten going consistently. The fact his numbers have been serviceable (better than several others in the rotation since May 1st) and has yet to really hit his stride suggests there is upside there also.

[Barnaby Graves]

So basically any information that is statistical and yet disagrees with your assertions really does not matter huh

You are the one removing the data!!!

[Il BuonO]

I thought you made that smiley because you thought I was being disingenuous.

I talked baseball, tried to make nice, and then a mod slapped me. I try not to care about the internet but basically I feel right now like I'm trying to talk baseball and people are getting pissy that I'm not just saying "2 earned runs, all good." Especially coming from Scott and Mr Orange because they are some of my favorite people. I mean why are we even here. I get all the rep in the world for stupid posts about fruit and Dustin Pedroia secretly being a dwarf geomancer, I try to say Ubaldo wasn't actually good today and people are mad.

And again I'll reiterate, I don't think Scott is a stupid person, and why would anyone think that I think that?

Me and my daughters still talk about your fruity posts.

[SteveO]

You are the one removing the data!!!

No your the one who is trying to set the rules for what data is pertinent.

His data since the start of the season has meaning, his data since May 1st is large enough sample for a starter to be considered also.

So explain to us all how a guy who "is not good" has a an ERA of 3.12 and a WHIP of 1.21 in 6 starts during May .... ?

[Il BuonO]

I believe you have become arrogant and emotionally unavailable ever since you took down your avatar of Nate.

Ok, I don't believe I have ever been repped AND received an infraction for the same post. Of course you are now viewing the sanitized version. These emoticons added for those who thought this post was offensive. Please carry on with your regularly scheduled broadcast.

[Barnaby Graves]

No your the one who is trying to set the rules for what data is pertinent.

His data since the start of the season has meaning, his data since May 1st is large enough sample for a starter to be considered also.

April also happened this year and has meaning.

You guys are just not even thinking about this at all. You are throwing out whatever information you want to.

So explain to us all how a guy who "is not good" has a an ERA of 3.12 and a WHIP of 1.21 in 6 starts during May .... ?

He pitches like crap but is lucky enough that balls which were being hit to the left of Manny Machado and the right of JJ Hardy are instead hit to them, and the fly balls he allows are dropping closer to fielders, but he has no control over this and deserves none of the credit. He walks a lot of batters and doesn't strike out enough of them to justify it. He is lucky at best. Also it's not May. It's June. Even if I take his ERA and WHIP in May completely at face value, it's useless because you purposefully excluded the context. Chris Waters shut out the Angels for 8 innings in one game, so what. Aaron Small went like 10-0 his rookie year, so what. I am talking about 2014. On the whole he has been bad.

I'm amazed I am getting this much resistance to the idea he is bad.

[Il BuonO]

I'm amazed I am getting this much resistance to the idea he is bad.

He's our $50 million man. Sell crazy somewhere else.

What do you think of the kumquat?

[Barnaby Graves]

He's our $50 million man. Sell crazy somewhere else.

What do you think of the kumquat?

Never actually had one. I'm a little biased against fruits and vegetables which look like they are knockoffs of other fruits and vegetables. That's why you can't knock the kiwi. He's his own man.

[Il BuonO]

Never actually had one. I'm a little biased against fruits and vegetables which look like they are knockoffs of other fruits and vegetables. That's why you can't knock the kiwi. He's his own man.

Love the kiwi. I wonder if Ubaldo is eating enough fruit? I may have to lock this thread with that one.

[LookitsPuck]

Since May:

3.88 ERA

6.8 H/9

8.7 SO/9

5.2 BB/9

1.336 WHIP

Ubaldo's biggest problem right now are the walks. That's it.

He's turned it around after a terrible April. Since May he's had 8 starts. In 6 of those starts he's allowed 2 runs or less. In 5 he's allowed 1 run or less. And twice he's allowed 0. Hell, up until that clunker against the A's, he had his ERA drop from 6.59 (ERA in April) down to 4.39.

[Barnaby Graves]

Since May:

3.88 ERA

6.8 H/9

8.7 SO/9

5.2 BB/9

1.336 WHIP

Ubaldo's biggest problem right now are the walks. That's it.

He's turned it around after a terrible April. Since May he's had 8 starts. In 6 of those starts he's allowed 2 runs or less. In 5 he's allowed 1 run or less. And twice he's allowed 0. Hell, up until that clunker against the A's, he had his ERA drop from 6.59 (ERA in April) down to 4.39.

So even when we pretend an entire month did not happen he has allowed over 5 walks per 9. Who ever got away with that on a consistent basis. Even Nolan Ryan had less than 5 walks per 9.

[MarylandAaron]

Since May:

3.88 ERA

6.8 H/9

8.7 SO/9

5.2 BB/9

1.336 WHIP

Ubaldo's biggest problem right now are the walks. That's it.

He's turned it around after a terrible April. Since May he's had 8 starts. In 6 of those starts he's allowed 2 runs or less. In 5 he's allowed 1 run or less. And twice he's allowed 0. Hell, up until that clunker against the A's, he had his ERA drop from 6.59 (ERA in April) down to 4.39.

All good points here. I don't think it's necessary at all to send Jimenez to the 'pen. Yes he's been struggling with control this year, but we knew that was going to be the case going in. His BB rate is always going to be high, but at the end of the day he's pretty much a #3-4 starter with upside. We just have to be kind of patient with him I think, especially since he normally gets better in the 2nd half.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Stats are results. You take what happens on the field and you make a number from it.

I thought you made that smiley because you thought I was being disingenuous.

I talked baseball, tried to make nice, and then a mod slapped me. I try not to care about the internet but basically I feel right now like I'm trying to talk baseball and people are getting pissy that I'm not just saying "2 earned runs, all good." Especially coming from Scott and Mr Orange because they are some of my favorite people. I mean why are we even here. I get all the rep in the world for stupid posts about fruit and Dustin Pedroia secretly being a dwarf geomancer, I try to say Ubaldo wasn't actually good today and people are mad.

And again I'll reiterate, I don't think Scott is a stupid person, and why would anyone think that I think that?

There are just many people (even very smart ones) who have problems accepting and/or considering your bolded premise above. A lot of people just cannot or will not relate these to more commonly accepted "performance" stats. I have lost count of how many times I've heard that "FIP is not a performance stat, it's a predictive stat".

I love Orange and Scott, but they are two of the more adament ones. Orange will consider them and is quite analytical, but in the end, will likely dismiss or mitigate them. Scott will likely just reject them out of hand. They are by no means alone, and the spectrum varies.

For posting as long a you have, and being as smart as I know you are, I'm a bit surprised you don't get this and are seemingly so indignant about it. As you said, maybe you've been running up rep for too long with the comedic remarks that you've lost touch a little bit with how the board generally views analytics in the trenches. Opinions vary widely and are as just resolute as yours on the other spectrum.

While i generally agree with you about Ubaldo to this point, maybe the rhetoric has been a little too strong in your representation for some posters to relate to. I'm ok with it personally, i do get your point quite clearly and it's a good one. But keep in mind that DIPS theory is quite a stretch for some people to grasp and far from precise.

[McNulty]

If you're going to get weird on me then Can of Corn is my only hope.

Somebody please tell me they agree with me. Ubaldo Jiminez walked a bunch of guys and didn't strike out enough guys. And that's why I don't think he's good. Can anyone on this website agree with that premise or should I just pack my things for Siberia.

I agree with you.