Send Ubaldo To The BP

[mark_beckens]

I don't even AGREE to disagree. Just disagree. You're wrong.

I agree with your disagreement!

[Barnaby Graves]

You're being overly dramatic (yes, you really, really are).

I think you and Scott are being unusually sensitive and I'm not really sure why because I like the both of you and don't have an agenda. I mean seriously. We are talking about a guy who I was happy we signed. On this forum I am literally calling myself an idiot who shouldn't make predictions about baseball, by making these posts. There's no drama here, the guy is just really freaking bad at doing his job.

A 0.40 K/BB ratio (for today) is terrible. He has been demonstrably bad. There's no way to argue this unless you think the numbers he is producing somehow aren't really happening. Nobody looks at Lough's numbers and says "well he's actually a great power hitter."

He induced enough of the right kind of contact to erase the potential damage caused by the walks. If he was "terrible" today, that would not have been the case.

He has been lucky that the left side of his infield contains two people who would make fine additions to any defensive arrangement in baseball history. And Schoop has also acquitted himself well and Davis is fine. Re: the kind of contact he induces, his 1.0 HR/9 (before this game) is not a good number for his career.

Now, if you said he was "kind of bad," I wouldn't take issue with that. Because he was fortunate to escape with minimal damage. Last year, he only started eight games in which he walked four or more batters. This year he's already started six games in which he's walked four or more.

??? Why does this mean I am off base.

He needs to get better. That's indisputable. The problem is...so does Tillman (4.91 ERA and 1.52 WHIP vs. 4.86 ERA and 1.51 WHIP for Jimenez), and Gonzo isn't back yet. Though I was skeptical of socal's thread yesterday, the more I think about it, maybe Ubaldo should be the starter getting skipped when Gonzo returns. Maybe. But either way, he's not exactly the team's biggest problem right now.

EDIT: and you might want to look at Tillman's and Ubaldo's FIP/xFIP's, also.

What is the point of this. Ubaldo is not that bad because Tillman is also bad?

[MrOrange82]

Dude, I'm not responding to a page-long, point-by-point diatribe. You've already accused scOtt of being "stupid" (board rules?), and you're clearly WAY too emotional about this particular subject...for whatever reason.

[Il BuonO]

I don't even AGREE to disagree. Just disagree. You're wrong.

What exactly is he wrong about, scOtt? Jimenez DID walk 5 guys in only 6 IP. He increased his BB/9 which was 5.1 before the game started.

I hope he improves, but those numbers are unsustainable.

[Il BuonO]

Dude, I'm not responding to a page-long, point-by-point diatribe. You've already accused scOtt of being "stupid" (board rules?), and you're clearly WAY too emotional about this particular subject...for whatever reason.

I believe you have become arrogant and emotionally unavailable ever since you took down your avatar of Nate.

[Barnaby Graves]

Dude, I'm not responding to a page-long, point-by-point diatribe. You've already accused scOtt of being "stupid" (board rules?), and you're clearly WAY too emotional about this particular subject...for whatever reason.

We're talking baseball (point-by-point "diatribe???")! What's wrong with you guys? I am not saying Scott is a stupid person, I'm saying dismissing what Ubaldo is doing as "Barnaby is wrong" is stupid.

I mean seriously I like talking to you guys it's unnecessary to get defensive. Before the 2012 season I said I thought the Orioles' O/U wins would be 60 games. There, that's a dumber thing than anyone else on the entire forum has ever posted. Go ahead and mock me. I don't care.

And point by point diatribes are what I'm all about. I love baseball and following it makes me happy.

I won't apologize but I'll just say I like talking to everyone here :beerchug1:

[Il BuonO]

We're talking baseball (point-by-point "diatribe???")! What's wrong with you guys? I am not saying Scott is a stupid person, I'm saying dismissing what Ubaldo is doing as "Barnaby is wrong" is stupid.

I mean seriously I like talking to you guys it's unnecessary to get defensive. Before the 2012 season I said I thought the Orioles' O/U wins would be 60 games. There, that's a dumber thing than anyone else on the entire forum has ever posted. Go ahead and mock me. I don't care.

And point by point diatribes are what I'm all about. I love baseball and following it makes me happy.

I won't apologize but I'll just say I like talking to everyone here :beerchug1:

:slytf:

[Barnaby Graves]

:slytf:

If you're going to get weird on me then Can of Corn is my only hope.

Somebody please tell me they agree with me. Ubaldo Jiminez walked a bunch of guys and didn't strike out enough guys. And that's why I don't think he's good. Can anyone on this website agree with that premise or should I just pack my things for Siberia.

[Barnaby Graves]

Lol and an infraction now too.

Sorry I offended everyone. Ubaldo is a great pitcher I think he should walk everyone.

[bpilktree]

I'm not wrong. He's bad, he's been bad, I hope he will not continue to be bad.

There's nothing different between stats and results. If you go to ball four on five different batters, that's 5 BB. If you go to ball four on five different batters, that's five people who took free bases without trying as hard. If I say "5 BB" or I say "well jeez he worked really hard and he battled and gritty and gutsy and his hair was really nice today but also he went to ball four on five different batters," it's the same thing. 5 BB. 5 guys who did took a free base.

2 strikeouts. Two guys who he got out more or less by himself. So all of the outs under his purview minus 2 outs is 16 outs his defense had to work for. He's not the hero. You replace Manny Machado and JJ Hardy with Derek Jeter and Wilson Betemit and nobody thinks Ubaldo Jiminez was a good pitcher today. But either way, Manny Machado and JJ Hardy don't get that credit.

So don't be stupid, we all know what this is. He has not pitched well.

If a batter walks that does not mean he didn't try hard. Reyes in the first went 10 pitches Lawries walk was 8 i believe Gose was 7. I have no idea how you say they didn't try if that was the case they would all have been out. They battled him and then were able to get the walk. Ubaldo is going to walk guys because he will not just throw it over to get hit hard. If he decided to throw it over right down the middle and give up two hits instead of a walk would that be better. He allowed 8 base runners it doesn't matter if it is 8 walks 8 hits or a combination.

[SteveO]

If you're going to get weird on me then Can of Corn is my only hope.

Somebody please tell me they agree with me. Ubaldo Jiminez walked a bunch of guys and didn't strike out enough guys. And that's why I don't think he's good. Can anyone on this website agree with that premise or should I just pack my things for Siberia.

Was it his best effort....nah but it was good enough to give us a chance to win and that is the primary task for a SP. This game is on the bats IMO.

His numbers since May suggest he has been pretty decent take out his last start and those numbers look even better.

[Barnaby Graves]

If a batter walks that does not mean he didn't try hard. Reyes in the first went 10 pitches Lawries walk was 8 i believe Gose was 7. I have no idea how you say they didn't try if that was the case they would all have been out. They battled him and then were able to get the walk.

Didn't try as hard, is what I said. And I'm not saying they wouldn't have hit home runs, or been out, or anything in between. I'm just saying a walk is pretty much never preferred unless the batter is Barry Bonds or the situation is right. A walk is a bad outcome. They didn't have to put the ball in play. Let's say the average BABIP is .300. Well, the average chance of getting on base after being walked in 1.000.

And let's not pretend that, for this year, all of Ubaldo's walks came after valiant struggles. Sometimes he just throws the ball away for 4 or 5 pitches.

Ubaldo is going to walk guys because he will not just throw it over to get hit hard. If he decided to throw it over right down the middle and give up two hits instead of a walk would that be better. He allowed 8 base runners it doesn't matter if it is 8 walks 8 hits or a combination.

I think that sometimes he literally cannot groove a strike if he wanted to. Sometimes his mechanics (or whatever is wrong with him) are so out-of-whack that it's not an option. And his two-seamer tails so much he can't control it.

Whether or not the baserunner is walked always matters. If you allow 27 straight balls in play or 27 straight walks, there's at least a chance those 27 straight balls in play were sometimes outs.

[Il BuonO]

If you're going to get weird on me then Can of Corn is my only hope.

Somebody please tell me they agree with me. Ubaldo Jiminez walked a bunch of guys and didn't strike out enough guys. And that's why I don't think he's good. Can anyone on this website agree with that premise or should I just pack my things for Siberia.

Man, I wasn't getting weird. Somewhere this thing went off the rails. I was totally joking around.

Lol and an infraction now too.

Sorry I offended everyone. Ubaldo is a great pitcher I think he should walk everyone.

I got one, too. Look, I'm often sarcastic and don't use emoticons. The post to Mr. Orange was a total goof. One of my favorite posters.

If I offended anyone, I completely apologize.

[Barnaby Graves]

His numbers since May suggest he has been pretty decent take out his last start and those numbers look even better.

Why stop there. Take every start he's ever had, remove all non-0 ER results, and say he's never allowed an earned run.

[Il BuonO]

Somebody please tell me they agree with me. Ubaldo Jiminez walked a bunch of guys and didn't strike out enough guys. And that's why I don't think he's good. Can anyone on this website agree with that premise or should I just pack my things for Siberia.

Man, you realize I started this thread and you have been agreeing with the premise I put forth from the beginning right?

Ok, man this gets exhausting sometimes.