As much as most of us root for Crush... He's not helping on offense...

[DrungoHazewood]

Look at the 79/80 A's. Those guys were frequently pitching 9 or 10 innings. Norris, McCatty, Lankford, who am I missing? Keough? They all came down with serious arm injuries.

No way was the pitching usage for the BillyBall A's "standard for the day".

The 1980 A's led the league in Complete Games by 46. They had 94, the 2nd place team had 48. Earl's Orioles had 42.

The '80 A's had complete games in 58% of their starts. The last time the league averaged 58% complete games was 1919, in the deadball era, when the NL leader in homers had 12.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Billy's handling of his Oakland pitchers in the early 80s was standard. For 1948.

To be honest, my recollection of Martin is almost entirely in NY prior to that period. I watched them almost every game that was televised (which was a lot) kept with them pretty well. My dad was big Yankee fan. Go back to 1977 and compare the Orioles SP staff to the Yankees.

Also, I went back and reviewed his SP from 1980-1983 and I guess I'm not seeing anything that would equate to exraordinary usage (other than maybe Langsford) for that time period. Can you point it out for me.

[SteveA]

To be honest, my recollection of Martin is almost entirely in NY prior to that period. I watched them almost every game that was televised (which was a lot) kept with them pretty well. My dad was big Yankee fan. Go back to 1977 and compare the Orioles SP staff to the Yankees.

Also, I went back and reviewed his SP from 1980-1983 and I guess I'm not seeing anything that would equate to exraordinary usage (other than maybe Langsford) for that time period. Can you point it out for me.

More CGs than any other Twp teams in the league combined?

And every one of those guys had a career shortened by arm problems.

[CA-ORIOLE]

The 1980 A's led the league in Complete Games by 46. They had 94, the 2nd place team had 48. Earl's Orioles had 42.

The '80 A's had complete games in 58% of their starts. The last time the league averaged 58% complete games was 1919, in the deadball era, when the NL leader in homers had 12.

Weaver was still utilizng a 4 man pitching staff in 1980. Compare the starts and innings pitched.

[DrungoHazewood]

To be honest, my recollection of Martin is almost entirely in NY prior to that period. I watched them almost every game that was televised (which was a lot) kept with them pretty well. My dad was big Yankee fan. Go back to 1977 and compare the Orioles SP staff to the Yankees.

Also, I went back and reviewed his SP from 1980-1983 and I guess I'm not seeing anything that would equate to exraordinary usage (other than maybe Langsford) for that time period. Can you point it out for me.

I think the fact that the 1980 A's led the league in complete games by double anyone else's total says a lot. And the fact an average team in 1919 had that many complete games. As does the fact that pretty much that entire staff was out of baseball with arm troubles within a few years.

[DrungoHazewood]

Weaver was still utilizng a 4 man pitching staff in 1980. Compare the starts and innings pitched.

I think you're being a little obtuse here. Billy Martin's 1980 team had twice as many complete games as any other team in the league. The 1980 A's had 29 more complete games than any MLB team in the 1970s. The last major league team to have more CGs than the '80 A's was the 1941 White Sox.

[Frobby]

I'm fine with strikeouts when the player is being productive in his other at bats. From April 15 to May 5, a stretch of 16 games, Davis stuck out 25 times in 68 PA but he also hit .310/.382/.638 with 5 homers and 16 RBI. Since then, he has struck out 27 times in 74 PA (pretty much the same ratio), but he's hit .123/.216/.262 with 2 homers and 5 RBI. He's just not making solid contact and he looks very uncomfortable at the plate right now. It's not a matter of hitting in bad luck, either. He just doesn't have it together. Hopefully he'll have one good game and that will set him off on a tear.

Yeah, hopefully. One of these days.

[mdbdotcom]

Best thread of the day!

[EagleOriole]

Of course this is the reverse lock winner for the night and this thread will NEED to be repeated tomorrow before the game. This must happen!

[Herman]

Herman...9 times out of 10, the guys who use stats to back up every argument they ever have have never played a sport with any proficiency of any kind.

Billy Martin wanted to drop Reggie Jackson to sixth in the order from cleanup because he struck out too much. The GM had to step in and tell him no. So Billy and Herman probably would have gotten along great.

Not gonna bash Martin though. He did some stuff very well. Managing his pitchers and platooning were major strengths as I recall. Both stuff he learned from Stengel. Small ball tactics, like bunting and hit and run, were more questionable, but he probably did have guys that did it well.

LOL! You're using Reggie Jackson as an example to prove your point about Chris Davis!

It's not just the strikeouts with Chris Davis. It also has something to do with the .196 BA last year and the .216 BA this year.

[weams]

Best thread of the day!

It's like a Firestone thread.

[weams]

LOL! You're using Reggie Jackson as an example to prove your point about Chris Davis!

It's not just the strikeouts with Chris Davis. It also has something to do with the .196 BA last year and the .216 BA this year.

Yeah. But the Orioles beat the mighty Astros. So for today. There is that.

[CA-ORIOLE]

I think you're being a little obtuse here. Billy Martin's 1980 team had twice as many complete games as any other team in the league. The 1980 A's had 29 more complete games than any MLB team in the 1970s. The last major league team to have more CGs than the '80 A's was the 1941 White Sox.

I'm being obtuse? There's no difference between 4 days rest and 5 day rest in comparing him to Weaver in 1980? Maybe he utilized his SP perhaps excessively in 1980, but that's about the only year I can see, and like I said, my main recollection was with the Yankees prior to that. Am i being obtuse by pointing out that his record was more favorable than Weavers with SP's pre-1980?.

[Herman]

Herman...9 times out of 10, the guys who use stats to back up every argument they ever have have never played a sport with any proficiency of any kind.

I'm fine with strikeouts when the player is being productive in his other at bats. From April 15 to May 5, a stretch of 16 games, Davis stuck out 25 times in 68 PA but he also hit .310/.382/.638 with 5 homers and 16 RBI. Since then, he has struck out 27 times in 74 PA (pretty much the same ratio), but he's hit .123/.216/.262 with 2 homers and 5 RBI. He's just not making solid contact and he looks very uncomfortable at the plate right now. It's not a matter of hitting in bad luck, either. He just doesn't have it together. Hopefully he'll have one good game and that will set him off on a tear.

Exactly my point. CA ORIOLE finds it acceptable to bat .200 and strike out 250 times as long as he hits 40 home runs.

[Herman]

Herman...9 times out of 10, the guys who use stats to back up every argument they ever have have never played a sport with any proficiency of any kind.

Yeah. But the Orioles beat the mighty Astros. So for today. There is that.

Haha very true