Schmuck throws in the towel on D-Cab...

[MemorialStadKid]

It doesn't sound like he rushed to judgement.

He hasn't said anything that many respected posters here haven't said.

He is one of us- a fan with an opinion. The difference is his is printed in the paper.

Can't we (collectively at OH) disagree with his opinion about Cabrera without calling Schmuck names and attacking his integrity/reputation, etc?

This whole "KEEP OR GET RID OF DCAB" argument is very similar to the "BLOW IT UP VS. FREE AGENCY FIXES" debates over the last few years.

Both sides were vociferous in their beliefs, and with the slight exception of a few people with flamer/troll mentalities, both sides had excellent points.

However, in the long term, we all seem to understand that the best and only way to fix the Orioles was to go through the rebuild/blow up process for many reasons. Even though I was a member of the Free Agent Fix group, I now see that the Orioles had to make trades of the few bankable stars we had in order to move forward for long term success.

By the same token, I am wondering if the people who want to give DCab yet another whole season to get on point understand that he might have reached his apex as a major league pitcher? Obviously, I am solidly in the camp of trading the guy or moving him to a closer position at the worst, but is it at all possible to see that this time, the opposite point of view might be the correct one?

Peter Schmuck is being criticized because he finally crossed the line from being optimistic to being a bit more realistic and disappointed. Rather than look at the central idea in his article, he is being attacked because he didn't like the way DCab responded to the press.

Sure, maybe thats a nitpick, but DCab's performance is the key point. I liked Cabrera back in 2005. I truly believed that he was going to turn the corner. But then nothing.

So then 2006 came and went, and became very skeptical that he was going to turn the corner. But then nothing.

So then 2007 came and went, and I shouted from the rooftops that he needs to be traded. And he is still here.

Other teams got Wang, Santana, Lecester (the guy beat CANCER!), Beckett, Joba, and other young talented pitchers while we keep holding onto a guy who clearly cannot get the job done. If he was on any other team, he would have been released at the end of 2006. But the Orioles refuse to drop the hammer.

What's worse is that people who are baseball "smart" on this board also seem to be unwilling to let this guy go. Folks, as much as I HATED the idea of parting with Tejada, Bedard and possibly Roberts, I now see that their departure is truly for the best. Cabrera is not going to turn the corner.

I wish I was wrong here, but I know that he is going to do the same thing he has done over the last 3 -- throw lots of pitches, mainly balls, load up the bases on walks, throw a fast ball to a power hitter, and cause the Orioles to lose more games than he wins.

Watch and learn for 2008.

MSK

[Old#5fan]

This whole "KEEP OR GET RID OF DCAB" argument is very similar to the "BLOW IT UP VS. FREE AGENCY FIXES" debates over the last few years.

Both sides were vociferous in their beliefs, and with the slight exception of a few people with flamer/troll mentalities, both sides had excellent points.

However, in the long term, we all seem to understand that the best and only way to fix the Orioles was to go through the rebuild/blow up process for many reasons. Even though I was a member of the Free Agent Fix group, I now see that the Orioles had to make trades of the few bankable stars we had in order to move forward for long term success.

By the same token, I am wondering if the people who want to give DCab yet another whole season to get on point understand that he might have reached his apex as a major league pitcher? Obviously, I am solidly in the camp of trading the guy or moving him to a closer position at the worst, but is it at all possible to see that this time, the opposite point of view might be the correct one?

Peter Schmuck is being criticized because he finally crossed the line from being optimistic to being a bit more realistic and disappointed. Rather than look at the central idea in his article, he is being attacked because he didn't like the way DCab responded to the press.

Sure, maybe thats a nitpick, but DCab's performance is the key point. I liked Cabrera back in 2005. I truly believed that he was going to turn the corner. But then nothing.

So then 2006 came and went, and became very skeptical that he was going to turn the corner. But then nothing.

So then 2007 came and went, and I shouted from the rooftops that he needs to be traded. And he is still here.

Other teams got Wang, Santana, Lecester (the guy beat CANCER!), Beckett, Joba, and other young talented pitchers while we keep holding onto a guy who clearly cannot get the job done. If he was on any other team, he would have been released at the end of 2006. But the Orioles refuse to drop the hammer.

What's worse is that people who are baseball "smart" on this board also seem to be unwilling to let this guy go. Folks, as much as I HATED the idea of parting with Tejada, Bedard and possibly Roberts, I now see that their departure is truly for the best. Cabrera is not going to turn the corner.

I wish I was wrong here, but I know that he is going to do the same thing he has done over the last 3 -- throw lots of pitches, mainly balls, load up the bases on walks, throw a fast ball to a power hitter, and cause the Orioles to lose more games than he wins.

Watch and learn for 2008.

MSK

Totally agree. In short, he is the "Kyle Boller" of the Orioles. They have hung onto this guy way, way too long. More than any other team would have done. It is an insult to Orioles fans. I for one, would not intentionally attend or buy a ticket to any game he is scheduled to pitch, and that is pretty bad.

[DuffMan]

Totally agree. In short, he is the "Kyle Boller" of the Orioles. They have hung onto this guy way, way too long. More than any other team would have done. It is an insult to Orioles fans. I for one, would not intentionally attend or buy a ticket to any game he is scheduled to pitch, and that is pretty bad.

It does seem like they are afraid that once they get rid of him the light is going to come on and he's going to be a dominant pitcher.

[Boy Howdy]

I for one, would not intentionally attend or buy a ticket to any game he is scheduled to pitch, and that is pretty bad.

And I will continue to try to attend games when Daniel Cabrera is on the mound, so thank you for making at least one more ticket available.

Talk is very, very cheap. None of this stuff means a dag ole thing come opening day when the games start to count. Cabrera will talk with his pitching, for better or for worse.

[BaltimoreTerp]

This whole "KEEP OR GET RID OF DCAB" argument is very similar to the "BLOW IT UP VS. FREE AGENCY FIXES" debates over the last few years.

Both sides were vociferous in their beliefs, and with the slight exception of a few people with flamer/troll mentalities, both sides had excellent points.

However, in the long term, we all seem to understand that the best and only way to fix the Orioles was to go through the rebuild/blow up process for many reasons. Even though I was a member of the Free Agent Fix group, I now see that the Orioles had to make trades of the few bankable stars we had in order to move forward for long term success.

By the same token, I am wondering if the people who want to give DCab yet another whole season to get on point understand that he might have reached his apex as a major league pitcher? Obviously, I am solidly in the camp of trading the guy or moving him to a closer position at the worst, but is it at all possible to see that this time, the opposite point of view might be the correct one?

Peter Schmuck is being criticized because he finally crossed the line from being optimistic to being a bit more realistic and disappointed. Rather than look at the central idea in his article, he is being attacked because he didn't like the way DCab responded to the press.

Sure, maybe thats a nitpick, but DCab's performance is the key point. I liked Cabrera back in 2005. I truly believed that he was going to turn the corner. But then nothing.

So then 2006 came and went, and became very skeptical that he was going to turn the corner. But then nothing.

So then 2007 came and went, and I shouted from the rooftops that he needs to be traded. And he is still here.

Other teams got Wang, Santana, Lecester (the guy beat CANCER!), Beckett, Joba, and other young talented pitchers while we keep holding onto a guy who clearly cannot get the job done. If he was on any other team, he would have been released at the end of 2006. But the Orioles refuse to drop the hammer.

What's worse is that people who are baseball "smart" on this board also seem to be unwilling to let this guy go. Folks, as much as I HATED the idea of parting with Tejada, Bedard and possibly Roberts, I now see that their departure is truly for the best. Cabrera is not going to turn the corner.

I wish I was wrong here, but I know that he is going to do the same thing he has done over the last 3 -- throw lots of pitches, mainly balls, load up the bases on walks, throw a fast ball to a power hitter, and cause the Orioles to lose more games than he wins.

Watch and learn for 2008.

MSK

1) More people are attacking Schmuck for his tone then his opinion. When it sounds like he wouldn't have written the article at all had Cabrera acted differently in the interview, that's a sign.

I really like his writing, but this sounds like he was trying to justify his disappointment in Cabrera's attitude by his performance.

2) We have no reason to no give Cabrera as many chances as possible. Until the day when we have other pitchers legitimately blocked by having him on the roster, or his salary or contract become prohibitive for his performance, he gets all the chances he needs.

If he doesn't turn it around, that day will come when he will no longer be here, but that day is not today.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Totally agree. In short, he is the "Kyle Boller" of the Orioles. They have hung onto this guy way, way too long. More than any other team would have done. It is an insult to Orioles fans. I for one, would not intentionally attend or buy a ticket to any game he is scheduled to pitch, and that is pretty bad.

Yes, it does say a lot about you.

[markdublya]

Am I wrong.....or did Schmuck change the title of his article, based on the title I put on this thread?!?!

I agree with him 96% of the time, for a long time now, but he really seems to be basing this on personality (and fielding) - with 2+ weeks to go in Spring, in a rebuilding year. You give him this whole season and THEN it is verdict time!

[TonySoprano]

Schmuck, imo, is one of the last guys out there who would be vindictive in print for trivial reasons.

Vindictive may be a harsh term, but Schmuck has an axe to grind.

(I know nobody cares whether a player gets along with the media. Normally, I wouldn't care either, but his salty attitude this spring is just another sign of his inability to address the real issues affecting his performance.)

That's a pretty big "but" there, and no that isn't a personal reference to Schmuck's size.

[hatepaste]

Ok I was looking over some things, and gotta come to Cabrera's defense.

First he is only 27 years old, so he is still relatively young.

Second, last year he pitched the most innings in his career, but posted the lowest BB's/9 IP.

Had the least amount of wild pitches last year then in any other year (while pitching 40+ more IP then any other year)

Second lowest WHIP in his career.

In Randy Johnson's 5th big league year (age 28) he had 140 BB's in 210 IP. After that, he was basically lights out.

[66-70-83-??]

Vindictive may be a harsh term, but Schmuck has an axe to grind.

That's a pretty big "but" there, and no that isn't a personal reference to Schmuck's size.

Ehh, maybe. I don't know if I would say that he has an "axe to grind" either. That may also be a bit harsh.

It (DCabs latest outburst) could have just been the last straw for Schmuck. After all, by his own admission, he has been touting him for some time.

Schmuck is like many of us in that he has been around here a lot longer than Cabrera. Doesn't that and his reputation earn him the right to speak his mind without getting his credibility attacked?

It isn't like he is some Johnny-come-lately.

And, like some recent Bedard threads, if DCab is indeed being an a-hole without being provoked- that ain't right either.

[Cakes2Kakes]

Yes, we must be careful of the feeling of these 23 year old men, making hundreds of thousands of dollars to play baseball, in a low pressure, no expectation baseball town.

They have a job to do, if they do it poorly, the reporters should be allowed to ask why. And these guys need to learn at an early age that part of their job is to talk with the media.

If you like to play baseball, but don't want anyone critisizing you, there are pleanty of recreational leagues.

One Sun writer outs himself!:002_smad:

[Cakes2Kakes]

You are right.

Our lovable "heroes" are perrrrfect!

And they are helpless babies who need to be loved and coddled.

The press should realize their job is to hero worship and praise these guys.

Better yet- lets just let the players tell the writers word-for-word what to write in the papers. Who needs a free press?

...and another!

Schmuck changed the title and removed some of his earlier venom as well.

That article was a sorry rant by an offended sports writer and nothing more!

Please explain where I said anything about "heros" and being "perrrrfect". My point was that we have a lot of young players now, with a lot of learning and growing up to do, and some hot headed reporter that gets his knickers in a wad because a guy is "SALTY" after a poor outing, is not reporting anything news worthy or at all interesting. He is b!tching in public because he has a forum, and that can have a negative impact on, "over paid" young athletes!

[RayKinsella]

Like the article or not...you gotta think it's 2008 or never for DCab.

[Ruzious]

First he is only 27 years old, so he is still relatively young.

He'll turn 27 on May 28th... and celebrate with a complete game no-hit 9 walk performance - and get roundly criticised here for it.

[osfan83]

Ok I was looking over some things, and gotta come to Cabrera's defense.

First he is only 27 years old, so he is still relatively young.

Second, last year he pitched the most innings in his career, but posted the lowest BB's/9 IP.

Had the least amount of wild pitches last year then in any other year (while pitching 40+ more IP then any other year)

Second lowest WHIP in his career.

In Randy Johnson's 5th big league year (age 28) he had 140 BB's in 210 IP. After that, he was basically lights out.

Help me understand this, 27 is relatively young, but 30 is too old for a rebuilding team?

27 is young for a guy who has been a solid contributor for the last 3 or 4 years. 27 is not young for a guy who has yet to prove he belongs in a big league rotation.