This is A Mess (Mega RANT Thread)

[weams]

Exactly. It's a bit challenging to engage in factual discourse when you keep confusing facts with your own opinion.

I used to think it was a generational thing. But the fact is, it is not. It is a view that is often supported by the masses.

[MemorialStadKid]

The "facts" keep evolving, and that's because they aren't facts but opinions.

You say that, but look at what I actually said. Are any of those things fictional?

MSK

[weams]

The "facts" keep evolving, and that's because they aren't facts but opinions.

Occasionally a fact is proven incorrect. Very rarely. And usually only with the evolution of scientific discovery. But is is very rare. Far too rare for them to be, let's say, "an opinion."

[weams]

You say that, but look at what I actually said. Are any of those things fictional?

MSK

No. They are opinions. Without factual evidence. And I can say that.

[MemorialStadKid]

No. They are opinions. Without factual evidence. And I can say that.

I'm trying to understand what the opposing viewpoint is here? That saber can justify DD's lack of movements during the offseason?

I know someone can put together a calculus formula that says we're actually better without Cruz, Markakis and Miller. But can that same formula say we're better with the crew we have at this time?

A lot of you express frustration with how some posters critique the team because it's "observational" (which is strange to me because the nature of the sport is based upon observation) but I can only go by what I see.

I see losing. I see AAAA guys replacing known talent. I see a FO completely lost between the idea of going all in or becoming sellers. It is truly a mess.

The best part is the fact that a lot of money is coming off the books at the end of the season, but what's the plan to supplement our core? There seems to be nothing substantial on the horizon and that sucks.

MSK

[TonySoprano]

You say that, but look at what I actually said. Are any of those things fictional?

MSK

You keep presenting as "fact" that "Duquette was too distracted" to do his job and he basically mailed it in after that.

The plan was this:

"Oh snap! I can't go to Toronto and I let a couple of the best players on the Orioles walk! I know, I'll just grab some AAAA talent and hope I get lucky!"

I've heard of worse plans under duress.

MSK

This is the 3rd and last time I'll ask you to address this.

Was he similarly distracted the previous two offseasons? As I've already said, his biggest score in both years was Nelson Cruz. Tell me what else stands out. Therefore it stands to reason that since we had a typical Orioles offseason in 2012 and 2013 (i.e. no big headline moves), the fact that we had more of the same in 2014 is not an indication that Dan was distracted, but rather that the moves he made/didn't make were driven by other factors. Budget? All I see people come back with is , well , he should have signed Cruz. Personally, I wouldn't have given him a four year deal either. Other than Cruz, give us examples of moves that Dan could have reasonably made but didn't?

Here are the 2013 offseason transactions. Until Jimenez was signed on Feb, 19, and Cruz was signed 5 days later, the biggest move was acquiring Davis Lough on December 18. Given how 2014 went, the only move that really paid off was Cruz. There was no talk of Toronto then. Ditto, the 2012 offeason when the biggest name still on the team is McFarland .

Contract extensions and arbitration increases added to payroll this year. After that, we don't know what payroll flexibility Dan had left. Pay no attention to the body of work from Tillman, and Norris to date, or that Hardy has missed over half of the games played. Instead, we'd rather point to conspiracy theories, and disparage Dan's work ethic. Whatever.

[Herman]

i

Quiet...they'll ban you for that, or at least try to embarrass you for your poor comprehension of sacred algorithms comprised of arbitrarily weighted variables.

AHAHAHAHA Exactly!!!

Amazing that people can't comprehend this.

People comprehend it but it doesn't mean that they agree that it's the correct approach. They play in the same division as two financial powerhouses and the opportunities to contend for a division title or a World Series are few and far between. They had the opportunity to go for it this year but they didn't. Just b/c I disagree with their approach or you agree with it doesn't make either of us right or wrong.

[weams]

I'm trying to understand what the opposing viewpoint is here? That saber can justify DD's lack of movements during the offseason?

I know someone can put together a calculus formula that says we're actually better without Cruz, Markakis and Miller. But can that same formula say we're better with the crew we have at this time?

A lot of you express frustration with how some posters critique the team because it's "observational" (which is strange to me because the nature of the sport is based upon observation) but I can only go by what I see.

I see losing. I see AAAA guys replacing known talent. I see a FO completely lost between the idea of going all in or becoming sellers. It is truly a mess.

The best part is the fact that a lot of money is coming off the books at the end of the season, but what's the plan to supplement our core? There seems to be nothing substantial on the horizon and that sucks.

MSK

Answer the moderator's questions before you post anything else. If you choose to PM him instead of posting it here, I will accept that. When he asked those questions, he was not acting as a fellow poster.

[OFFNY]

Probably my biggest pet peeve' date=' outside of "could care less," is when people end everything with "just my opinion" or "just my two cents." It's not as if the rest of the world assumed you were giving somebody else's opinion before you threw that in, and it doesn't make it any less wrong. It just makes the writer sound anemic.[/quote']

Along with "To be honest with you" and/or "Honestly."

To be honest ???

You mean, as opposed to all of the lies and bullcrap that you usually lay on us when you speak ???

[Herman]

i

Quiet...they'll ban you for that, or at least try to embarrass you for your poor comprehension of sacred algorithms comprised of arbitrarily weighted variables.

I'm trying to understand what the opposing viewpoint is here? That saber can justify DD's lack of movements during the offseason?

I know someone can put together a calculus formula that says we're actually better without Cruz, Markakis and Miller. But can that same formula say we're better with the crew we have at this time?

A lot of you express frustration with how some posters critique the team because it's "observational" (which is strange to me because the nature of the sport is based upon observation) but I can only go by what I see.

I see losing. I see AAAA guys replacing known talent. I see a FO completely lost between the idea of going all in or becoming sellers. It is truly a mess.

The best part is the fact that a lot of money is coming off the books at the end of the season, but what's the plan to supplement our core? There seems to be nothing substantial on the horizon and that sucks.

MSK

You can't argue with the sabermetric/analytic guys b/c they think that they are always right. If baseball was as simple as using formulas and equations there would be no point in watching. Statistics are a barometer, but a lot of experts here use statistics as the basis of their argument. Case and point - recently the O's hit a couple of meaningless home runs in the 9th inning of a 9-1 game. The stat sheet, however, doesn't reflect that. Another example is how laughable it is when people use WAR to defend Travis Snider. Anyone who watches the guy play can recognize that he has a very limited upside and doesn't being a lot to the table. As a team the O's are undisciplined and strike out a lot but the experts here will still argue to the death that strikeouts aren't a big deal. Well, the team is last in baseball at scoring with a runner on 3rd with less than 2 outs for a reason. The best part is, these guys try to belittle and insult those who have opinions that are completely seduced by sabermetrics. It's kind of funny.

[MemorialStadKid]

You keep presenting as "fact" that "Duquette was too distracted" to do his job and he basically mailed it in after that.

This is the 3rd and last time I'll ask you to address this.

So I'm being threatened? Interesting notion on a board that I pay for access.

I said several times that I would have signed Cruz to his 4 year deal and picked up a SP.

At the time I might have gone after Ervin Santana or James Shields.

Those two moves alone would have made a significant difference in 2015.

MSK

[CA-ORIOLE]

AHAHAHAHA Exactly!!!

People comprehend it but it doesn't mean that they agree that it's the correct approach. They play in the same division as two financial powerhouses and the opportunities to contend for a division title or a World Series are few and far between. They had the opportunity to go for it this year but they didn't. Just b/c I disagree with their approach or you agree with it doesn't make either of us right or wrong.

I don't have any issues with people criticizing the GM for moves made within his likely financial constraints/parameters. I really don't have any issues about people complaining in general at about the results being what they are, particularly if they just want to rant. I do take issues with stuff "like the GM as so distracted with Toronto that he blew the offseason" and "we should have just gone for it" without considering the financial constraints etc. (particularly when this criticism is pointed at the GM). So yeah, Herman you're free to criticize "the approach" but don't whine when I and others find some of the criticisms fairly nonsensical and not in touch with the economic realities of the situation.

As RZ stated, the GM's general strategy for 2015 was to field as competitive team as possible within his likely financial constraints. That's been pretty evident by his remarks and actions. Agree or disagree with elements of that plan as you will. I doubt Nori Aoki would have made much of a difference.

[weams]

You can't argue with the sabermetric/analytic guys b/c they think that they are always right. If baseball was as simple as using formulas and equations there would be no point in watching. Statistics are a barometer, but a lot of experts here use statistics as the basis of their argument. Case and point - recently the O's hit a couple of meaningless home runs in the 9th inning of a 9-1 game. The stat sheet, however, doesn't reflect that. Another example is how laughable it is when people use WAR to defend Travis Snider. Anyone who watches the guy play can recognize that he has a very limited upside and doesn't being a lot to the table. As a team the O's are undisciplined and strike out a lot but the experts here will still argue to the death that strikeouts aren't a big deal. Well, the team is last in baseball at scoring with a runner on 3rd with less than 2 outs for a reason. The best part is, these guys try to belittle and insult those who have opinions that are completely seduced by sabermetrics. It's kind of funny.

Please. Let's not groop people. You have been asked before.

[TonySoprano]

So I'm being threatened? Interesting notion on a board that I pay for access.

I said several times that I would have signed Cruz to his 4 year deal and picked up a SP.

At the time I might have gone after Ervin Santana or James Shields.

Those two moves alone would have made a significant difference in 2015.

MSK

Threatened? No, you're challenged to address my facts. Explain the difference between the offseasons we had in 2012 and 2013 in terms of players acquired and what we saw in 2014 when he was SUPPOSEDLY too distracted to care.

[weams]

So I'm being threatened? Interesting notion on a board that I pay for access.

I said several times that I would have signed Cruz to his 4 year deal and picked up a SP.

At the time I might have gone after Ervin Santana or James Shields.

Those two moves alone would have made a significant difference in 2015.

MSK

No one threatened you. Access is a privilege as you know. Payment of support does not guarantee the right to stir the pot. You know that we have a good relationship. I expect you to respect my coworker's requests.