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Manny at short

Ori-Al

By Ori-Al
in Orioles Talk

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glenn__davis Hangout Grand Counsel

glenn__davis

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If finding a hitting SS was easier then why is SS considered a more scarce position?

And right now we had a 56 OPS+ coming from our SS position. That is the worst I've ever heard of from a position in the MLB.

We aren't hitting at SS.

You are moving the goalposts so often I'm having a hard time finding them.

I think the main thing people are taking issue with is the idea that Manny is such a superior SS that the only reason JJ is still playing is due to "politics". The reason this has been the formation is because it is the best combination of offense and defense for the Orioles to win baseball games.

No doubt JJ's lack of offense hurt the team this year. We'll see if he can have a bounce back year next year with an offseason of rest. If he continues to struggle next year it may be time to consider a move. Which will be done again not due to politics but due to trying to win baseball games.

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Redskins Rick Hangout Grand Counsel

Redskins Rick

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If finding a hitting SS was easier then why is SS considered a more scarce position?

And right now we had a 56 OPS+ coming from our SS position. That is the worst I've ever heard of from a position in the MLB.

We aren't hitting at SS.

Finding a good hitting SS with a plug glove is not easy, but neither is finding a quality 3rd either.

Unfortunately we have had too many poor position players at both positions.

Look up how many game winning hits that Hardy has had this year, and I think he isn't as bad as you claim.

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webbrick2010 Hangout Veteran Council

webbrick2010

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I think someone (supposedly the FO) needs to determine the following:

1. Does Manny want to move to SS

2. Will giving him his wish entice him to signing an extension.

If the answers are yes and an extension is doable, than kick Hardy to the curb.

I think it is foolish to think that Hardy is going to have much of a bounceback. His issues are age related and chronic, and they began last year when he dropped from 25 HR's to 9 HR's. The O's aren't going to be competitive for the remainder of Hardy's contract. They should be doing everything they can be doing to make the re-build as quick and complete as possible.

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Ruzious Hangout Grand Counsel

Ruzious

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2015 JJ Hardy has the best UZR/150 of any shortstop in the major leagues. http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=ss&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=700&type=1&season=2015&month=0&season1=2015&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=24,d He's 5th in total UZR despite having missed about 35 games. 2015 JJ Hardy is an elite defensive shortstop. And based on a study I did last winter, it's not unusual for an elite defensive SS to remain elite through age 34 (the 3rd year of Hardy's deal). So there is not reason to move him now. This is not 1997 when we moved 36-year old Cal Ripken to 3B. Cal was still a great defensive SS at 34 (22 Rtot), slowed at 35 (2 Rtot) and then we moved him over. It's not time yet for Hardy.

Moving him will NEVER be an option, because he doesn't hit well enough.

Study or no, logically people slow down and lose a step - in every main sport - when they're into their 30's. And I'm not saying move him out now. But his time to fall to average or below could easily come next season defensively imo, and he's not a good hitter. Bottom line - I'm not comfortable with our SS situation for 2016 and beyond.

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Babypowder Hangout Veteran Council

Babypowder

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Finding a good hitting SS with a plug glove is not easy, but neither is finding a quality 3rd either.

Unfortunately we have had too many poor position players at both positions.

Look up how many game winning hits that Hardy has had this year, and I think he isn't as bad as you claim.

Hardy has a 52 wRC+. Among players with at least 300 plate appearances, that's good for 4th worst in major league baseball and worst among shortstops.

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Aristotelian Hangout Grand Counsel

Aristotelian

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Hardy has a 52 wRC+. Among players with at least 300 plate appearances, that's good for 4th worst in major league baseball and worst among shortstops.

This year. Which everyone acknowledges was horrible. The question is whether he can come back healthy and replicate his 2014.

Regardless, there is nothing we can do about it because no team is going to eat JJ's contract. If the question is "Would you move JJ's contract as a salary dump right now," I think 90% of us would say yes. But that is not going to happen. You can't base the case for trading a guy off of how bad he is!

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Babypowder Hangout Veteran Council

Babypowder

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This year. Which everyone acknowledges was horrible. The question is whether he can come back healthy and replicate his 2014.

Regardless, there is nothing we can do about it because no team is going to eat JJ's contract. If the question is "Would you move JJ's contract as a salary dump right now," I think 90% of us would say yes. But that is not going to happen. You can't base the case for trading a guy off of how bad he is!

Agreed. The poster I was replying to was defending Hardy's offense THIS year. I couldn't let that go unchallenged.

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winkies Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

winkies

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Positional Scarcity exists for a reason. We spit in the face of that logic by not considering a move to SS for Machado.

Why move him to SS?

1. It's hard to find a SS can field well.

2. It's almost impossible to find a SS who can hit well.

3. SS is a young man's position.

3. Machado can both #1 and #2 and satisfies #3.

We kind of deserve this by signing less of a player at SS and then ignoring his age.

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Redskins Rick Hangout Grand Counsel

Redskins Rick

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Positional Scarcity exists for a reason. We spit in the face of that logic by not considering a move to SS for Machado.

Why move him to SS?

1. It's hard to find a SS can field well.

2. It's almost impossible to find a SS who can hit well.

3. SS is a young man's position.

3. Machado can both #1 and #2 and satisfies #3.

We kind of deserve this by signing less of a player at SS and then ignoring his age.

Who was the number 1 rated SS defensively last year in MLB?

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SteveO Veteran All-Star

SteveO

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I think I would sign or get someone like a David Freese. A guy with some versatility who is an upgrade over Flaherty.

I would then plan on JJ at SS, Manny at 3B. Freese could play some OF, DH, and could even play some 1B. If JJ struggles with injuries or starts to show signs of further regression then you move Manny to SS, Freese to 3B. You could also use this configuration to give JJ some extra days off and Manny some reps that I think he can handle just fine at SS.

This approach allows for the possibility of JJ returning to form and maximizing his value while also providing a better protection plan than Flaherty if he regresses further or the injuries continue.

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