Wieters is staying with the Orioles for 2016

[MurphDogg]

Even if hate Clevenger, they could have signed Saltalamacchia to split some time with Jospeh and they still would have come out way on top. No way Wieters is worth close to $15 million a season. I'm shocked you are even arguing this.

He wasn't last year but he was from 2010-13 and the portion of 2014 when he played.

[DrungoHazewood]

The free agent cost of a win is what 7 million? I don't think it is a foregone conclusion that Wieters is incapable of putting up 2.3 win season.

That can't be too far off his median projection. Even last year, working his way back from a major injury, he was worth about two wins per 550 PAs. Nobody thinks he'll suddenly be the Switch Hitting Jesus, but if he's healthy he should be about average.

[24fps]

The free agent cost of a win is what 7 million? I don't think it is a foregone conclusion that Wieters is incapable of putting up 2.3 win season.

Why pay full retail for something you don't need? The WAR argument only makes sense if it's used in conjunction with addressing an actual hole in your lineup. The Orioles already had catcher covered.

[gmelson26]

I think at this point we can argue till we are blue in the face and its all for naught. MW will be on this team, now the focus should be how to best utilize him while saving as much of our resources to address our other needs as possible. That solution likely means one of the following, MW starts, CJ backs up or MW playing some C and DH/1B OR the Orioles including CJ in a deal that addresses another position. Obviously all those approaches have serious downsides, it is what it is though, gotta make the best of it.

I think the forums can afford a few hours to have an emotional response to this, don't you? Civil discourse over the issue for a couple of minutes maybe before we move on. Honestly since we're none of us in the FO, all we can actually do is conjecture future moves, analyze current moves, reminisce about the past, and rant. This is one of those things.

[OsEatAlEast]

Well I will say this one thing. Since Wieters took the QO it is almost certain that he is healthy. I guess that's something.

[Babypowder]

Yea but any other guy you bring in who is credible at all is gonna cost something. Something that now we are paying MW 15+ million we cannot afford to pay IMO.

Honestly if CD walks, I would rather just bring in Walker or Mancini and have MW get AB's at 1B then spend another 5-7 million on Pearce. No scrapheap guy or Pearce is gonna produce that much more than Walker/Mancini/MW mix that it makes it worth diverting money from improving your pitching to sign them.

Obviously it would have been better to sign Pearce and have Pearce/Mancini/Walker cheaper but it is what it is.

They don't have to be credible. Matt Wieters would be a well below replacement level 1Bman. There are minor league free agents that are better than that.

[Can_of_corn]

Why pay full retail for something you don't need? The WAR argument only makes sense if it's used in conjunction with addressing an actual hole in your lineup. The Orioles already had catcher covered.

That wasn't the point I was addressing.

While I am fine with him accepting I would have preferred if he hadn't.

[Reboulet'sStache]

That can't be too far off his median projection. Even last year, working his way back from a major injury, he was worth about two wins per 550 PAs. Nobody thinks he'll suddenly be the Switch Hitting Jesus, but if he's healthy he should be about average.

But we don't need him to be average at C. We had average-ness at the C position already taken care of.

[gmelson26]

Hopefully,the Orioles management have a plan if Wieters did accept the offer. If not could as you say be a bad year. i won't use the word crippling.

Use Clev or Joseph as a trade chip to fill in another spot and then see were we are with Chance Sisco at the end of the year? ...I dunno.

[Babypowder]

Why pay full retail for something you don't need? The WAR argument only makes sense if it's used in conjunction with addressing an actual hole in your lineup. The Orioles already had catcher covered.

Yes, this. He technically may be worth his salary if he is indeed a 2+ win player next year, but Caleb Joseph already is one of those... and he's already on the team.

[DrungoHazewood]

Why pay full retail for something you don't need? The WAR argument only makes sense if it's used in conjunction with addressing an actual hole in your lineup. The Orioles already had catcher covered.

Because it was a calculated gamble. It was a headstrong agent taking an unprecedented QO, against the need for picks to rebuild the farm. And the downside was you paid one year's going rate for a pretty good regular. Which isn't a terrible thing, it's not a crippling thing, it just changes your approach a little.

[CaptainRedbeard]

Gentlemen's agreements happen all the time in baseball. Clearly Boros did what he does best. He gets the most money he can for his client.

I'm just surprised the Orioles would have offered him a QO without some kind of understanding. If they did so without one, they really misread the market because I'm not surprised in the least bit that Wieters took the QO. He would have been dumb not to.

Duquette is a smart guy so perhaps he's got an understanding that he can significantly improve payroll and Wieters' bloated contract won't affect what he still needs to do this offseason. At least I hope so.

I think you're stuck remembering the gentleman's agreements that used to happen before the QO system when Type B free agents that turned down arbitration got their team a supplemental pick, BUT their signing didn't cost the signing team a pick. In that system, agreeing beforehand to turn down arbitration didn't cost the free agent anything.

Here, with the QO, there's a huge cost to agreeing beforehand to turn down a QO because it could have a massive impact on their free agent contract. Every agent should be doing their best to convince the team NOT to offer QOs in borderline cases for fear of them being accepted, and they certainly wouldn't have any reason to acquiesce to turning down a borderline QO offer before it is actually made.

[Can_of_corn]

Yes, this. He technically may be worth his salary if he is indeed a 2+ win player next year, but Caleb Joseph already is one of those... and he's already on the team.

But Joseph does require you to have a backup's production for ~70 games.

[DrungoHazewood]

Use Clev or Joseph as a trade chip to fill in another spot and then see were we are with Chance Sisco at the end of the year? ...I dunno.

Yea, why not? Joseph just had a 2-win season and he's still got years at discounted rates. Trade him to fill a hole, and maybe you miss his not-too-far-off decline/arb years. Or you keep him, but it's an option.

[SteveO]

The free agent cost of a win is what 7 million? I don't think it is a foregone conclusion that Wieters is incapable of putting up 2.3 win season.

Problem is this.

Lets say MW has a very good year, lets say he puts 3.3 win season. That's great right? Problem is CJ was worth 2.2 wins this year. So you have in essence paid 15+ million for about ONE win difference at best between what you had (CJ) and what MW gave you. That is if everything goes great and MW has a really good year. There is not a whole lot to cheer about in that proposition for a team with the number of needs we have. Not good at all.