Is it time to consider a new stadium somewhere else?

[Going Underground]

Yeah, as I said, went to a Yankees game and the Subway station was right near the stadium as is the Nats one. I haven't used mass transit to get to an O's game ever but I think it would be great especially if you wanted to have a drink or two before and after the game.

Light Rail going north is slow and not reliable. Stops at every light. Also wondered why they can't put an extra car on the train when they expect big crowds. Metro in DC is another issue. Closing down a whole subway system for a day. May have to close some lines for extended periods. The whole infrastructure in this country is not good.

I think this perception is slowly changing:

About one-fifth of Maryland residents outside the city told University of Baltimore pollsters in September and October that they expect to visit Baltimore?s restaurants, tourist attractions and cultural venues less frequently in the coming year than they had in the past 12 months. About 10 percent of Baltimore residents said the same.

Just 6 percent of respondents from area counties said they expect to visit the Baltimore more, according to the poll.

?I think the biggest thing is that John Q Suburbanite or Jane Q Suburbanite, a suburbanite who?s not inclined to enjoy spending time in this city or other cities, is just spooked,? said developer Arsh Mirmiran of Caves Valley Partners, who is working on a new development near the sports stadiums. ?I find it sort of offensive.?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/baltimore-civic-groups-work-to-restore-image-of-city/2015/11/09/706abd44-872d-11e5-be8b-1ae2e4f50f76_story.html

[Sessh]

My opinion is this. I have been to Camden Yards several times, but not in a very long time because I hate the city. Baltimore City especially is a crime infested dump and the places that are nice are still crime infested.

Half the city is run down and falling apart. I lived in the city until I had to attend school and my parents moved us to where I am now in Perry Hall because the city was unsafe and they didn't want me going to school

there. I have had negative experiences at Fells Point and the Inner Harbor involving really shady people, theft and being robbed at knife point though that happened to more than one person I knew, but not me thankfully.

It's just gotten worse as time has passed and I seriously doubt I'll be going down there unless I really have to and I still hate it then. There's still people walking around asking random strangers for money and being in the

city at night, even near Camden Yards, is not something I'm all that interested in doing.

However, that doesn't mean I think the Orioles should leave that stadium. It's a beautiful ballpark and at least for now, there's plenty of people still willing to go down there to experience it. I'm just not one of them.

[MurphDogg]

My opinion is this. I have been to Camden Yards several times, but not in a very long time because I hate the city. Baltimore City especially is a crime infested dump and the places that are nice are still crime infested.

Half the city is run down and falling apart. I lived in the city until I had to attend school and my parents moved us to where I am now in Perry Hall because the city was unsafe and they didn't want me going to school

there. I have had negative experiences at Fells Point and the Inner Harbor involving really shady people, theft and being robbed at knife point though that happened to more than one person I knew, but not me thankfully.

It's just gotten worse as time has passed and I seriously doubt I'll be going down there unless I really have to and I still hate it then. There's still people walking around asking random strangers for money and being in the

city at night, even near Camden Yards, is not something I'm all that interested in doing.

However, that doesn't mean I think the Orioles should leave that stadium. It's a beautiful ballpark and at least for now, there's plenty of people still willing to go down there to experience it. I'm just not one of them.

I have lived within 1200 feet of home plate at OPACY since 2009 (in Ridgely's Delight) and have never had any problems in this city. Yeah, strangers are going to ask you for money. Welcome to being in a city. They have people asking for money at traffic lights on 175 in Columbia.

Yeah, you might get a car window smashed but there isn't much crime around the stadiums. I have never felt unsafe walking anywhere in around the harbor, from Canton to Fells to Federal Hill to Locust Point. Crime is the lowest that it has ever been in our nation's history, certainly in the last 50 years, it hasn't gotten worse it has gotten better. Don't be afraid to live, man.

[Sessh]

It's not about being afraid to live. I've had enough negative experiences in Baltimore City to not go there anymore. Gun violence was up 75% in Baltimore City last year and it has been way up since the riots. I would not

consider that as "better" by any reasonable stretch.

[ChuckS]

My opinion is this. I have been to Camden Yards several times, but not in a very long time because I hate the city. Baltimore City especially is a crime infested dump and the places that are nice are still crime infested.

Half the city is run down and falling apart. I lived in the city until I had to attend school and my parents moved us to where I am now in Perry Hall because the city was unsafe and they didn't want me going to school

there. I have had negative experiences at Fells Point and the Inner Harbor involving really shady people, theft and being robbed at knife point though that happened to more than one person I knew, but not me thankfully.

It's just gotten worse as time has passed and I seriously doubt I'll be going down there unless I really have to and I still hate it then. There's still people walking around asking random strangers for money and being in the

city at night, even near Camden Yards, is not something I'm all that interested in doing.

However, that doesn't mean I think the Orioles should leave that stadium. It's a beautiful ballpark and at least for now, there's plenty of people still willing to go down there to experience it. I'm just not one of them.

Strangers asking for money at night in America? Welcome to every metropolitan city in the U.S. and most other countries.

Crime is higher in the city than the suburbs no matter where you go. I live in Washington, DC and have spent plenty of time in Baltimore and never have I felt unsafe venturing into areas where anyone would want to go. Inner Harbor, Federal Hill, Fells Point, Canton.....never had a problem and been going to those areas regularly for 15 years. These areas surely aren't dumps so I am not sure where you are hanging out. Always better to be with at least one other person than walk alone, but that goes the same for any city.

[mskrulz]

The Orioles have put a pretty good product on the field this year, and still the attendance at weeknight home games is pretty poor. Fans not wanting to go downtown after dark is part of this, apparently.

The Braves are moving from downtown Atlanta towards their more affluent suburbs. Should the Orioles consider a similar move with a new stadium?

It's freaking APRIL!!!! Sometimes I'm astonished at what I read on this board!

[El Gordo]

Like any city there are places that are safe and places you don't go after dark. When the O's are in town OPACY is a safe place. Thousands of people well lit, plenty of police presence. In NYC, Alphabet City was a no no, but now it's Hipsterville.

[Tony-OH]

[Sessh]

Strangers asking for money at night in America? Welcome to every metropolitan city in the U.S. and most other countries.

Crime is higher in the city than the suburbs no matter where you go. I live in Washington, DC and have spent plenty of time in Baltimore and never have I felt unsafe venturing into areas where anyone would want to go. Inner Harbor, Federal Hill, Fells Point, Canton.....never had a problem and been going to those areas regularly for 15 years. Always better to be with at least one other person than walk alone, but that goes the same for any city.

Well, that's your experiences, not mine. One of the people I referred to earlier was asked for money shortly before having a knife to her throat after her answer was no. It has gotten way worse since the riots in BC as

last year was the second deadliest year on record down there. I sure as hell don't want to see a baseball game that bad. Many others do, I'm sure. I've seen enough of the city to know I don't need to go there. Maybe

I've just been unfortunate enough to be close to the bad more than the good, but it is what it is.

[DJHJR86]

The Orioles will, and absolutely should, be in Camden Yards until that place falls down. It is an absolute gem, and one of the best parks in the majors. It is conveniently located for easy access into and out of the city. They would be insane to even entertain the thought.

This.

Easiest access to and from a stadium that I've ever been to.

[webbrick2010]

Really interesting, provocative thread

This is a mayoral election year and hopefully Baltimore will get a mayor who makes public safety the #1 priority

Clearly that wasn't the case last year when rioter/looters were giving a wide birth and allowed

to destroy private property with impunity. Clearly when a team must forfeit a home game

because the city cannot ensure private safety... someone is going to be looking at potential

spots to move the team to.

How many games will the O's lose when the Police offers are one by one acquitted?

[Going Underground]

Well, that's your experiences, not mine. One of the people I referred to earlier was asked for money shortly before having a knife to her throat after her answer was no. It has gotten way worse since the riots in BC as

last year was the second deadliest year on record down there. I sure as hell don't want to see a baseball game that bad. Many others do, I'm sure. I've seen enough of the city to know I don't need to go there. Maybe

I've just been unfortunate enough to be close to the bad more than the good, but it is what it is.

Around the stadium is fine. Baltimore is a way more violent city then most others. Boston has had like 8 homicides and Baltimore has had around 70. Last year,was the deadliest ever in the city based on population.

[Aglets]

Average April Attendance by Year

2012: 23,193

2013: 26,398

2014: 29,048

2015: 33,289 (throwing out the 0 attendance game. If you count that at 0 it falls to 29,960)

2016: 19,973 (not yet complete)

Keep in mind this year we've faced the Twins, Rays, and Jays at home, and have had exactly 2 'weekend games' so far.

[Aglets]

In an attempt to compare apples to apples a bit better:

In 2013 we also played the Jays at home in April on non-weekend days, like this year. That's the closest I could get for an apples to apples comparison. Keep in mind this was also just after we made the playoffs for the first time in 15 years.

In 2013 we averaged: 13,140 fans against the Jays during the week in April.

In 2016 that number against the same opponent during the week in April: 16,610.

So look at that, we've improved!

In summary: wait til the weather gets warmer, we play more 'prime' opponents, and we play more games on the weekend before we panic.

[birrman54]

Turner Field was a converted Olympic Stadium. Camden Yards is the model on which new stadium design has been based.

Are there any reports indicating that the Braves' move is motivated by safety concerns?

Anyone who has lived in the ATL area for more than a few years is pretty familiar with the political process. Basically every decision (especially public transit related) is based on a Suburb vs City attitude and almost always has underlying race issues.