If This Is It-2017 Offseason

[Bahama O's Fan]

If the playoffs are not achieved, what would YOUR offseason look like? Here's mine in a nutshell:

QO to Winters and Trumbo, they probably walk

Let Alvarez and Pearce walk

Extend Manny and Tillman

Mancini comes up to DH and Cisco to catch, maybe behind Joseph

Use the money on a pitcher and RF

[MDtransplant757]

If the playoffs are not achieved' date=' what would YOUR offseason look like? Here's mine in a nutshell:

QO to Winters and Trumbo, they probably walk

Let Alvarez and Pearce walk

Extend Manny and Tillman

Mancini comes up to DH and Cisco to catch, maybe behind Joseph

Use the money on a pitcher and RF[/quote']

Pretty much mine as well. I think we keep Pearce, but Pedro is gone

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

With the way Wieters is playing, he might take the QO again. I wouldn't chance it, unless he goes nuts the rest of the season.

[LookitsPuck]

My thing about Wieters...is aside from his CS%...he hasn't defended well. And he doesn't frame well. I *hope* the O's will go after someone who is at least league average or better framing pitches next year as a replacement for Wieters a la the Pirates in 2013 w/ Russell Martin.

QO Wieters

QO Trumbo

Hopefully both walk.

Extend Manny

Extend Tillman

Sign Geovany Soto for C

Call up Mancini as the DH

Sign Michael Saunders or Colby Rasmus to play RF

I think the O's are stuck w/ Ubaldo next year since Duquette doesn't seem keen on cutting him. I guess the only benefit to that is *maybe* he returns to form in 2017 (extremely doubtful). And *hopefully* Gallardo takes his offseason seriously, strengthens his arm and starts throwing at least 90-92 on the regular.

The problem is Ubaldo, Gallardo and Miley are making $33m. And they essentially have 3 rotation spots locked up...or at the very least roster spots. I don't think there's any way they sign a starter. Miley was our "big splash" in the SP market.

But anyways, we're going into next year with the following rotation candidates:

Tillman

Gausman

Bundy

Jimenez

Gallardo

Miley

[Norfolk orioles]

Gallardo Miley and jiminez are huge problems.

Thankfully they are all gone after the end of next year.

[Sessh]

My thing about Wieters...is aside from his CS%...he hasn't defended well. And he doesn't frame well. I *hope* the O's will go after someone who is at least league average or better framing pitches next year as a replacement for Wieters a la the Pirates in 2013 w/ Russell Martin.

QO Wieters

QO Trumbo

Hopefully both walk.

Extend Manny

Extend Tillman

Sign Geovany Soto for C

Call up Mancini as the DH

Sign Michael Saunders or Colby Rasmus to play RF

I think the O's are stuck w/ Ubaldo next year since Duquette doesn't seem keen on cutting him. I guess the only benefit to that is *maybe* he returns to form in 2017 (extremely doubtful). And *hopefully* Gallardo takes his offseason seriously, strengthens his arm and starts throwing at least 90-92 on the regular.

The problem is Ubaldo, Gallardo and Miley are making $33m. And they essentially have 3 rotation spots locked up...or at the very least roster spots. I don't think there's any way they sign a starter. Miley was our "big splash" in the SP market.

But anyways, we're going into next year with the following rotation candidates:

Tillman

Gausman

Bundy

Jimenez

Gallardo

Miley

The problem with all that is that team is worse than the one we have now that is collapsing. Extending Manny does not help the team as there are too many problems and the farm is in ruins, so no help there. Mancini

is far from a sure thing and is slugging only .452 at Norfolk. He's also striking out 25% of his ABs. The BA and OBP is nice, but whether that translates to the majors is yet to be seen. Mancini is a long shot and is pretty

far from a certainty at DH.

Soto hasn't played over 100 games since 2011. He played in 99 games in 2012, 54 games in 2013, 24 games in 2014, 78 games last year and 24 games so far this year. He is not an upgrade over Wieters who will more

than likely accept the QO if offered to him. Soto is a significant downgrade and he hasn't been an every day catcher in six years it will be. That is very risky.

Colby Rasmus is no good and strikes out way too much while not getting on base and can't hit lefties. Basically, Pedro Alvarez v2 plus he only listens to his father which makes him uncoachable. The O's passed on him

already. Saunders, maybe, but are you confident he can repeat this year he's having?

Bottom line is the Orioles will need to rebuild. The longer the inevitable is put off, the more it's going to hurt when it is unavoidable and the longer it's going to take to recover from it. It'll be 1998-2011 all over again.

Trade Britton, Jones and Machado. Keep Bundy, Gausman (unless a good offer is given), Tillman, Schoop, Kim, Rickard, Brach, Givens. If a suitor can be found for Davis, Gallardo and Miley, do it. The trades would bring

back 10+ players with most being high quality youth to rejuvinate the farm system and the major league club. If this team with this offense misses the playoffs, it has to be done. No more of this patchwork stuff signing

average to below average players and hoping it all works out. This team would not be one or two players away from a championship. It's a whole farm system, half a pitching staff and a more dynamic offense away from

a championship.

A rebuild is inevitable whether it's done sooner or later, it will happen. The only question is how bad will it hurt and for how long? The longer it is put off and patched up with fingers crossed, the longer and more severe

the pains will be trying to build it all from scratch through the draft after all of our trading chips are either gone for nothing or have lost their value. Extending Machado does not make us better than we are now. Extending

Tillman does not make us better than we are now. Signing any of those players you mentioned does not make us better than we are now. The team has too many problems to just patch it up with replacement level

players like this organization did for so many years and what did that get us? Nothing, not until we traded some of our best players and turned one player into multiple players that filled needs. At least then, we had some

hope on the farm. Now, we have none, so more drastic solutions would be necessary.

[wildcard]

Trumbo gets a QO and is gone.

No QO for Wieters. He goes FA and does not find the big contract he is looking for. O's re-sign him 3/30

Pedro is re-signed 3/24

O's extend Tillman. 4/61m plus an option.

Mancini is traded for a young, cheap right fielder.

O's offer to eat half of Jimenez contract and see if there are any takers.

Tillman, Bundy, Gausman and Gallardo are set for next year. Miley is a question mark.

O's add Rule 5 outfielder.

Trumbo, Pearce, Reimold, McFarland, Duensing and hopefully Jimenez are gone.

[Moose Milligan]

None of it really matters unless they lock up Manny. Really, the rest is just shuffling around the deck chairs on the Titanic.

[ChuckS]

Trumbo gets a QO and is gone.

No QO for Wieters. He goes FA and does not find the big contract he is looking for. O's re-sign him 3/30

Pedro is re-signed 3/24

O's extend Tillman. 4/61m plus an option.

Mancini is traded for a young, cheap right fielder.

O's offer to eat half of Jimenez contract and see if there are any takers.

Tillman, Bundy, Gausman and Gallardo are set for next year. Miley is a question mark.

O's add Rule 5 outfielder.

Trumbo, Pearce, Reimold, McFarland, Duensing and hopefully Jimenez are gone.

These kind of trades (prospect for prospect or cheap young player for another) rarely happen. We would have to take a significant offensive downgrade back if we are getting a RF who is capable defensively.

Also, I don't think we can afford to resign Matt Wieters. We have a team full of aging, expensive players and we need to start filling the roster with some cheap/controllable guys. Our no. 1 hitting prospect is a catcher and nearly major league ready, so that seems a no-brainer to me.

We have to pick our battles going forward:

-QO Trumbo he walks

-QO Wieters if he has a strong finish (he walks) or let him walk without the QO if his end of season #'s are mediocre.

-Let Pearce go

-Bring Alvarez back on a 1-2 year contract & platoon him with Mancini. I am also fine with rolling with Mancini as the full time DH, but Alvarez is nice to have as insurance.

-Sign Josh Reddick or Michael Saunders for RF. Rasmus is another low OBP - moderate power/high K guy which we don't need.

-Do everything we can to extend Manny. I'd offer him just over what Giancarlo Stanton got and see if he bites.

-I'm going to let Chris Tillman hit free agency and cross that bridge when we get there. Maybe we have a couple guys from the minors ready to step in the rotation in 2018.

WILDCARD: Trade Zach Britton for a haul that will sustain our organization's winning into the next decade and alleviate the somewhat desperate situation we have in regards to escalating personnel costs without viable replacements.

[Camden_yardbird]

None of it really matters unless they lock up Manny. Really, the rest is just shuffling around the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Ding, ding, ding.

If the orioles fall to 4the place, this off season is about managing payroll, creating flexibility and extending Manny. The quickest way to influx talent is to trade Britton, it has to be donear.

I doubt you could do it but I would see if you can offload Davis as well. That contract is a huge mistake but he is still productive. And if you can get someone to drop a Shelby miller type trade for Gausman you do it. I am not sold. I realize that's a long shot.

[Aristotelian]

Where the O's finish this year should be irrelevant to what we do next year.

Extend Manny (if ownership has the dollars). Please please please.

QO Trumbo. Also let Pedro go. Sign Michael Saunders and call up Mancini.

Extend Wieters for a modest number and years.

Keep Britton but look to trade him if we are not contending in July.

Target a LHP for the bullpen in the Rule 5.

[CP0861]

I suggested this thread yesterday but I was only joking. Wow. 2 games back with 44 to play and some have thrown in the towel. Incredible. What a bunch of front-runners.

I'm fairly new to this site and certainly not impressed by the level of support behind the team during bouts of adversity. Some of you guys have no shame. Sorry but it needs to be said - the truth stings sometimes. I'm sure some of you will defensively (and reflexively) claim it's okay to look to the future but that's not the point I'm getting at. It's more the denial of instant gratification that leads to absolute terror-stricken mindsets. What a weak bunch of pathetic sad-sacks. Show some semblance of a constitution and stand behind your team and accept rough patches/losses and come back the next day without so much white-flag waving. Just once. Be a man for god sakes.

And try to resist the urge to cowardly (on a website) strike back. This is my opinion, nothing more. I went after no one in particular so please don't feel personally offended. Just an observation.

There goes my hero

Watch him as he goes

There goes my hero

He's ordinary

[Moose Milligan]

I suggested this thread yesterday but I was only joking. Wow. 2 games back with 44 to play and some have thrown in the towel. Incredible. What a bunch of front-runners.

I'm fairly new to this site and certainly not impressed by the level of support behind the team during bouts of adversity. Some of you guys have no shame. Sorry but it needs to be said - the truth stings sometimes. I'm sure some of you will defensively (and reflexively) claim it's okay to look to the future but that's not the point I'm getting at. It's more the denial of instant gratification that leads to absolute terror-stricken mindsets. What a weak bunch of pathetic sad-sacks. Show some semblance of a constitution and stand behind your team and accept rough patches/losses and come back the next day without so much white-flag waving. Just once. Be a man for god sakes.

And try to resist the urge to cowardly (on a website) strike back. This is my opinion, nothing more. I went after no one in particular so please don't feel personally offended. Just an observation.

It's not so much of the fact that this team is two games back with 44 to play, it's the trends that have taken place here over the past few weeks. That might be hard for you to comprehend sitting in your big house in Cashburn but try to follow along:

I saw it on here or somewhere else that this team has been shut out 139 of the last 180 innings played. This team has an all or nothing offense that is open to extremely long spells of not scoring because of how it's constructed. High strikeout, low OBP guys that rely on the long ball. If you were paying attention last summer, the same thing happened. We went through a prolonged stretch of not being able to score runs.

If you were also paying attention last summer, this team has to sweep the Yankees in the final weekend to limp to the finish line at 81-81. Now this team is at 66 wins with 44 to play, if they were to go .500 they'd finish at 88 which probably won't get them the division but might put them in wildcard contention.

If you've been paying attention this season you'll know that this team has been crap on the road and, IIRC, there's more road games than home games left for this season.

Yes, from a 2 games back with 44 to go perspective you're probably right. But if you bothered to look at other trends and what's happening beyond that, you should see some reason for concern.

I don't think there's anyone on here that isn't standing behind the team, I'm sure that most, if not all the posters here watch pretty much every game they possibly can. The very fact that this board has dedicated posters who come on here at all hours of the day should show you that this team does have a lot of backing and loyal fans. A lot of the fans on this site have been here since the dark days from '98 to 2011 when there was practically nothing to root for and nothing to get excited about. The fact that you think you're Billy Badass by accusing others of some sort of lack of fan-ship is laughable but moreover a lazy, pathetic, "sad sack" of a viewpoint. Everyone on this board is a diehard, that should go without question. We can banter back and forth and have different dialogues on what this team should and shouldn't do, but no one here should ever be questioned on their support of the team. You might not have "gone after" anyone in particular but you pretty much went after everyone who's displeased with the way things are going right now. I'm not sure if there's a large difference.

There. Is that "cowardly striking back" or are you too dense to pick up what I'm putting down?

[allquixotic]

None of it really matters unless they lock up Manny. Really, the rest is just shuffling around the deck chairs on the Titanic.

I don't think this team can afford Manny. Ticket sales are down; we have way more holes than just third base (especially offensively); and it's a huge risk to put all your eggs in one basket.

If we could get a solid guarantee that Manny will never be injured, will consistently have an AB of at least .300 throughout his tenure, never slump for more than a week, never spend 1-2 months learning how to catch and throw again while making an error every other inning throughout, etc., then I'd say go ahead and give him half of the entire team's salary.

But none of those guarantees can be given, because people are mortal. They get hurt. They slump terribly. They forget how to catch, throw, hit, or all three at once. They get stomach flu; their parents die and they go on the bereavement list; they feel they have to use steroids to get ahead and occasionally get caught. They're human.

No. Putting all your eggs in one basket is a terrible idea. If you draft a player who comes up and is a star, that's great; enjoy them while they last. But a mid-market team like the Orioles cannot afford to invest $300MM+ into a single player. The Davis re-signing was pushing it already, and he seems perfectly content to sit back on his pile of gold and be perfectly mediocre this year. What if Manny turns out mediocre next year? Will he be worth 10/300 or 15/500 or whatever ridiculous out-of-this-world deal his agent will negotiate?

Let me put it another way. If we don't re-sign Manny, what can we do with that money? Maybe we can pick up a mid-season SP during a pennant race who's actually a bit better than Joe Saunders or Wade Miley. Maybe we can pick up a strong bullpen arm to shore up a tired pen. Maybe we can find a free agent who can hit for average. Maybe all three!

I think trying to re-sign incredible players is letting our emotions get away with us a bit too much. We get attached to players who are good. We want them to be an Oriole for life. But the reality is, we don't have the budget of the Yankees or the Dodgers. Angelos isn't made of money, and the money he did have laying around went to Davis. That's a lot of Mesothelioma case settlements invested in one guy, and it's probably less than half of what Manny will get.

We need to make more trades like the Bedard trade and fewer signings like Davis/Manny. That's how we can build a contender every year. Not by risking our entire organization on a single guy, who is far from a lock to play like an MVP every year, and could easily turn into a bust because of a freak injury or God knows what.

[Moose Milligan]

I don't think this team can afford Manny. Ticket sales are down; we have way more holes than just third base (especially offensively); and it's a huge risk to put all your eggs in one basket.

If we could get a solid guarantee that Manny will never be injured, will consistently have an AB of .500 throughout his tenure, never slump for more than a week, never spend 1-2 months learning how to catch and throw again while making an error every other inning throughout, etc., then I'd say go ahead and give him half of the entire team's salary.

But none of those guarantees can be given, because people are mortal. They get hurt. They slump terribly. They forget how to catch, throw, hit, or all three at once. They get stomach flu; their parents die and they go on the bereavement list; they feel they have to use steroids to get ahead and occasionally get caught. They're human.

No. Putting all your eggs in one basket is a terrible idea. If you draft a player who comes up and is a star, that's great; enjoy them while they last. But a mid-market team like the Orioles cannot afford to invest $300MM+ into a single player. The Davis re-signing was pushing it already, and he seems perfectly content to sit back on his pile of gold and be perfectly mediocre this year. What if Manny turns out mediocre next year? Will he be worth 10/300 or 15/500 or whatever ridiculous out-of-this-world deal his agent will negotiate?

I think trying to re-sign incredible players is letting our emotions get away with us a bit too much. We get attached to players who are good. We want them to be an Oriole for life. But the reality is, we don't have the budget of the Yankees or the Dodgers. Angelos isn't made of money, and the money he did have laying around went to Davis.

We need to make more trades like the Bedard trade and fewer signings like Davis/Manny. That's how we can build a contender every year. Not by risking our entire organization on a single guy, who is far from a lock to play like an MVP every year, and could easily turn into a bust because of a freak injury or God knows what.

We can make trades like the Bedard trade and I'd agree that it was a fantastic move. However, the Bedard trade resulted in an uptick in salary for us as we had to pony up to keep Jones. At the time, he was the most expensive player in team history.

Gotta put it on the table to keep someone like Manny or else he's gonna go to NY or Boston. You're telling me that the Nats shouldn't sign Harper long term? Angels shouldn't try to keep Trout?

Paralysis by analysis and the fear of what might happen won't improve this team, either. Ideally this team would be good enough to have guys waiting in the wings to replace what we have but we don't.