Could we sign Wieters back for something like 3/35? Should we?

[25 Nuggets]

Castro had .648 and .651 the two previous years. He started out strong this year and has started to fade. Most likey if you sign him you get a .650 OPS catcher. Nick Hundley has negative WAR. Suzuki had .610 OPS last year. Ramos had .616 OPS last year.

It's a barren landscape.

I still like Castro if he's cheap enough.

[atomic]

All hitters. Refer to my previous post about how badly catchers are hitting this year. It's on Page 2.

Ok so catchers average .680 and that is current big leaguers. Wieters is at .695 and rising. I dont' think WAR is calculated correctly. Because replacement level would be a guy you could get off waivers. I doubt there is a catcher that can defend well and can put up even 670 OPS over a full season that you could pick up on waivers.

Clevinger cost Trumo. He has never put on waivers. People just say WAR like it is the absolute guide to how well a player is doing.

[Redskins Rick]

Catchers naturally suffer in the WAR department because it is a cumulative statistic, and catchers just don't have the same number of games/plate appearances as another healthy position player. That said, positive WAR stays positive and negative WAR stays negative.

Good point, but not all posters agree, some just look at the raw number.

[25 Nuggets]

Ok so catchers average .680 and that is current big leaguers. Wieters is at .695 and rising. I dont' think WAR is calculated correctly. Because replacement level would be a guy you could get off waivers. I doubt there is a catcher that can defend well and can put up even 670 OPS over a full season that you could pick up on waivers.

Clevinger cost Trumo. He has never put on waivers. People just say WAR like it is the absolute guide to how well a player is doing.

Well, Wieters' oWAR is fairly positive (0.8) and that falls in line with being a bit above average relative to his position in OPS. Even though that's not the formula anymore. Instead, for whatever reason, they use rate positional adjustments, of which catcher gets one of the best boosts.

I'll give you this -- it's the easiest guide to how well a player is doing. One could call it lazy because you don't have to understand the meaning behind the stat to use it as reference. I'll be the first to tell you it's not perfect. That's why I try to list more of a complete line when I cite a player's season.

[atomic]

You could also trade for Brian McCann if you don't mind paying him 49 million over the next 3 years. The Yankess have a young catcher and McCann is available. Doub WAR guys would like him either. .9 War this season.

[DirtyBird]

We really have too much money tied up in other areas and spots where we really need to spend money to invest that much into Wieters.

Catcher is a spot we should be getting on the cheap next season, especially with the amount of depth we have in the organization.

[25 Nuggets]

You could also trade for Brian McCann if you don't mind paying him 49 million over the next 3 years. The Yankess have a young catcher and McCann is available. Doub WAR guys would like him either. .9 War this season.

95 OPS+, will be age 33 season... yeah I'd rather just stick with Wieters for 3/35 given the chance. McCann is headed for DH/1B land.

[Aristotelian]

Catchers naturally suffer in the WAR department because it is a cumulative statistic, and catchers just don't have the same number of games/plate appearances as another healthy position player. That said, positive WAR stays positive and negative WAR stays negative.

Good point, but you can at least use WAR to compare catchers to other catchers and get a relative sense of their value.

Ok so catchers average .680 and that is current big leaguers. Wieters is at .695 and rising. I dont' think WAR is calculated correctly. Because replacement level would be a guy you could get off waivers. I doubt there is a catcher that can defend well and can put up even 670 OPS over a full season that you could pick up on waivers.

Clevinger cost Trumo. He has never put on waivers. People just say WAR like it is the absolute guide to how well a player is doing.

Replacement level does not mean average. A 0-oWar guy at catcher would only need to put up .600 or something like that.

The O's got Nick Hundley and $2M for Troy Patton. He has a career .700 OPS. Rockies then signed him for 2/$6M. There are definitely replacement level guys out there and I don't think the upgrade to Wieters is worth a 3 year commitment at age 31.

Also, if anything, the "intangibles" that supposedly aren't counted in catcher WAR are precisely the areas the Caleb excels at, in my opinion.

[Rick_Schu]

Young pitchers need a veteran catcher. Yes re-sign him for 3 years. The way he and Donnie Hart worked Bryce Harper last night is why I want him behind the dish.

[DirtyBird]

Buck loves him and Matt has been a great Oriole. We should make every effort to re-sign him. A lot of people on this board may disagree with me but he has been a big reason for our success in the last 5 years. Losing him would be a tragedy.

Signing him for more than $6 million per year would be a tragedy. If we can get him for 3/$18 million, I'm all for it.

[atomic]

Good point, but you can at least use WAR to compare catchers to other catchers and get a relative sense of their value.

Replacement level does not mean average. A 0-oWar guy at catcher would only need to put up .600 or something like that.

The O's got Nick Hundley and $2M for Troy Patton. He has a career .700 OPS. Rockies then signed him for 2/$6M. There are definitely replacement level guys out there and I don't think the upgrade to Wieters is worth a 3 year commitment at age 31.

Also, if anything, the "intangibles" that supposedly aren't counted in catcher WAR are precisely the areas the Caleb excels at, in my opinion.

But Hundley is below replacement level this year. I think he would have made a good back up to Wieters. If Wieters got more days off I believe his OPS would be higher. I would try and get Wieters on a two year contract. We have Cisco in the wings but he won't be ready next year and it would be good to have a year of overlap.

[atomic]

Signing him for more than $6 million per year would be a tragedy. If we can get him for 3/$18 million, I'm all for it.

What is with all the "Tragedy" comments on here. Nothing other than a permanent brain injury or death in baseball is a tragedy.

[TradeAngelos]

You could also trade for Brian McCann if you don't mind paying him 49 million over the next 3 years. The Yankess have a young catcher and McCann is available. Doub WAR guys would like him either. .9 War this season.

WE DONT HAVE THE MONEY.

How hard is this to understand?

[24fps]

Maybe, not everybody agrees with your assessment that he is a mediocre one?

I strongly suspect Buck doesn't. And that makes the Orioles Matt's best opportunity for a decent contract after his performance this year. A contract the Orioles shouldn't hand out IMO.

[Aristotelian]

But Hundley is below replacement level this year. I think he would have made a good back up to Wieters. If Wieters got more days off I believe his OPS would be higher. I would try and get Wieters on a two year contract. We have Cisco in the wings but he won't be ready next year and it would be good to have a year of overlap.

I am being mostly negative but that is in response to OP's proposed 3/$30M. I would be happy to have Wieters back for a year or two until we have a clear replacement. I would be OK with something in the 2/$15M range. Just don't want to overpay and get screwed over by Boras yet again.