Trading Manny Machado - Buster Olney Article

[backwardsk]

1 minute ago, Bradysburns said:

Good point - but this would give them a cost-controlled star for the next two years. The guys we'd be getting back are not stars - yet. Although Kang certainly has some offensive promise. Who would you see as a possibility? I guess the perfect trade partner would be a team that's already very good... and with a great cache of top-tier prospects who are blocked by MLB players...

I have trouble finding a good partner because I don't see an organization that fits that description.

Your proposal is probably the best one I've seen.

It's easy to say "trade Manny." Much harder to find a viable solution.

[Bradysburns]

5 minutes ago, backwardsk said:

I have trouble finding a good partner because I don't see an organization that fits that description.

Your proposal is probably the best one I've seen.

It's easy to say "trade Manny." Much harder to find a viable solution.

It wouldn't be as fun as this Pittsburgh idea, but Philly might make some sense. They're apparently gunning for a breakout 2019, and will have tons of money to spend that year. Having Manny onboard now and angling to lock up him for a longer-term deal could make sense to Philly. However... same argument. They're building for the future, so they'll want to keep those top prospects?

 

But again, what would having Manny on their team THIS coming season do to reboot that franchise?

[Frobby]

2 hours ago, TradeAngelos said:

It really makes no sense. Well if we eliminate defense....wait what? Manny is the more valuable player in every way possible, starting with the fact he has 2 yrs left under control vs only 1 for Cabrera when he was dealt. Also Cabrera accumulated his war in first 5 years (a year older BTW) in 760 games, while Manny did it in only 608. A full season difference. So throw another 5-6 WAR onto Manny's total if we really want to be fair, and he smashes Miguel because as you said......he is one pf the greatest defenders in the game to go along with all his other skills. But I guess we can keep trying to rationalize something that makes no sense any way you slice it, because we know deep down our organization aint gonna write that check.  

1.   Nobody said eliminate defense.   I simply said the market may not value defense as much (or the same way) that WAR does.

2.   You're wrong that Cabrera was only under team control for one more year.    It was two.

3.   I never said Manny wasn't as valuable as Cabrera.   I merely said that you can't just assume that the market will value them equally.    

4.   Nobody's rationalizing anything.   I've made my position clear many times that the O's should try to lock Manny up this offseason, and if they can't, they should see what they can get for him in a trade.   

 

[wildbillhiccup]

The more I think about it the more I think the Cubs might be our best trade fit. Getting a young stud SS back, like Addison Russell, would really lessen the sting of losing Manny. Russell, Contreras and their top pitching prospect would definitely be a solid starting point. We'd essentially be getting two younger ML ready players who we could plug into our lineup immediately. Russell in particular has already demonstrated his worth at the ML level (and so has Contreras to a lesser extend) so that would take some of the "risk" out of the move that some of you are so worried about. 

Thoughts? 

[Justinlstn]

If were trading with the Cubs and targetting Russell, I'd also want Ian Happ to be part of the package.

[wildbillhiccup]

15 minutes ago, Justinlstn said:

If were trading with the Cubs and targetting Russell, I'd also want Ian Happ to be part of the package.

Agreed. In hindsight he'd probably be a better fit then Contreras for us since we have Sisco. Russell, Happ. and Cease (RHP) for Machado? 

Here's the scouting report on Happ for those unfamiliar with him. 20 / 20 upside and he projects as a 2B (work in progress) or OF. Could develop into the leadoff hitter we've coveted for years. 

And I REALLY like Russell. 90+ RBIs in his first full season and still only 22. And he's a terrific defender. The Os could plug him in at SS when they let Hardy walk then sign a FA 3B in the offseason. Frazier and Moustakas will both be FAs next year and I'd be perfectly fine with either one of them at 3B. 

Scouting grades: Hit: 60 | Power: 50 | Run: 55 | Arm: 55 | Field: 45 | Overall: 55

The Cubs believe in taking college hitters with early first-round picks, and they did so for three straight Drafts. After hitting big on Kris Bryant (2013) and Kyle Schwarber ('14), they selected Happ ninth overall last June and signed him for $3 million. Undrafted out of high school, he blossomed at the University of Cincinnati and ranked as the top position prospect in the Cape Cod League in each of his two college summers.

There isn't much that Happ can't do offensively. A switch-hitter, he exhibits a quick stroke and good balance from both sides of the plate, and he owns deceptive strength and solid speed. Happ should post high batting averages and on-base percentages, and he has the upside of a 20-20 player.

Happ is a good athlete with a strong arm, and Chicago will try to maximize his value by playing him at second base in 2016 after he spent instructional league there. He played mostly second base as a college freshman, but he lacked smooth infield actions and shifted to the outfield, and he also saw action at all three outfield spots in his pro debut. As with Schwarber, the Cubs will have to balance expediting Happ's impact bat to the big leagues with developing him at a more challenging position.

[Bradysburns]

20 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

Agreed. In hindsight he'd probably be a better fit then Contreras for us since we have Sisco. Russell, Happ. and Cease (RHP) for Machado? 

Here's the scouting report on Happ for those unfamiliar with him. 20 / 20 upside and he projects as a 2B (work in progress) or OF. Could develop into the leadoff hitter we've coveted for years. 

And I REALLY like Russell. 90+ RBIs in his first full season and still only 22. And he's a terrific defender. The Os could plug him in at SS when they let Hardy walk then sign a FA 3B in the offseason. Frazier and Moustakas will both be FAs next year and I'd be perfectly fine with either one of them at 3B. 

Scouting grades: Hit: 60 | Power: 50 | Run: 55 | Arm: 55 | Field: 45 | Overall: 55

The Cubs believe in taking college hitters with early first-round picks, and they did so for three straight Drafts. After hitting big on Kris Bryant (2013) and Kyle Schwarber ('14), they selected Happ ninth overall last June and signed him for $3 million. Undrafted out of high school, he blossomed at the University of Cincinnati and ranked as the top position prospect in the Cape Cod League in each of his two college summers.

There isn't much that Happ can't do offensively. A switch-hitter, he exhibits a quick stroke and good balance from both sides of the plate, and he owns deceptive strength and solid speed. Happ should post high batting averages and on-base percentages, and he has the upside of a 20-20 player.

Happ is a good athlete with a strong arm, and Chicago will try to maximize his value by playing him at second base in 2016 after he spent instructional league there. He played mostly second base as a college freshman, but he lacked smooth infield actions and shifted to the outfield, and he also saw action at all three outfield spots in his pro debut. As with Schwarber, the Cubs will have to balance expediting Happ's impact bat to the big leagues with developing him at a more challenging position.

Interesting idea! If you signed Russell, you could put him at second base now, and move Schoop to third immediately. You might not lose much if anything overall, defensively. Happ takes over short when Hardy leaves. But I'd rather have Contreras than Cease. (We all know about "can't-miss" A-ball pitchers.) Stick Contreras in left field. Boom. The next BJ Surhoff (a catcher-turned-outfielder).

[wildbillhiccup]

15 minutes ago, Bradysburns said:

Interesting idea! If you signed Russell, you could put him at second base now, and move Schoop to third immediately. You might not lose much if anything overall, defensively. Happ takes over short when Hardy leaves. But I'd rather have Contreras than Cease. (We all know about "can't-miss" A-ball pitchers.) Stick Contreras in left field. Boom. The next BJ Surhoff (a catcher-turned-outfielder).

Not sure Happ projects as a SS...

i would put Reed at SS immediately (since that's where we would want him long term). And move Hardy to 3b.

like the idea of putting Contreras in the OF and think the Surhoff comparison Is a good one.

[Number5]

I'm not clear on why the Cubs would do this.  They are the odds-on favorite as it is.  If they want Manny in the future, they could just wait 2 years until he hits free agency and sign him then.  They certainly have the money to compete with anybody in the bidding, don't they?  They could then trade the players you are talking about for other players, if they wanted to move them.

[esmd]

4 minutes ago, Number5 said:

I'm not clear on why the Cubs would do this.  They are the odds-on favorite as it is.  If they want Manny in the future, they could just wait 2 years until he hits free agency and sign him then.  They certainly have the money to compete with anybody in the bidding, don't they?  They could then trade the players you are talking about for other players, if they wanted to move them.

Agreed.  IMO, whatever team would trade for him would be a team that would view him as the piece that puts them over the top to win a WS.  The Cubs are already there.  Maybe a team like the Dodgers, Giants, Mets, Phillies (if they rebuild quicker than expected), Angels, Rangers, etc.  I don't see us trading him within the division, so forget NY, Boston, or TOR.

[wildbillhiccup]

30 minutes ago, Number5 said:

I'm not clear on why the Cubs would do this.  They are the odds-on favorite as it is.  If they want Manny in the future, they could just wait 2 years until he hits free agency and sign him then.  They certainly have the money to compete with anybody in the bidding, don't they?  They could then trade the players you are talking about for other players, if they wanted to move them.

On paper they look great, but maybe the NL Central race ends up being a little tighter then they expected. The best team doesn't always win...

Also, you could argue that trading for Chapman last season was excessive (they already had a pretty good closer). Yet they still pulled the trigger, as opposed to waiting to sign him in the off season. SO there is precedent.

[ChuckS]

I don't think you can trade Manny for purely prospects.  You need a major league player or two coming back, like a young starter with some upside.  

[wildbillhiccup]

2 hours ago, ChuckS said:

I don't think you can trade Manny for purely prospects.  You need a major league player or two coming back, like a young starter with some upside.  

Then the Dodgers probably aren't a good fit because we'd have to take Puig back in the deal. And I want no part of that head case. 

[ChuckS]

1 hour ago, wildbillhiccup said:

Then the Dodgers probably aren't a good fit because we'd have to take Puig back in the deal. And I want no part of that head case. 

We don't "have to" take any player back in a deal for Manny.  He's not a salary dump. 

[wildbillhiccup]

17 minutes ago, ChuckS said:

We don't "have to" take any player back in a deal for Manny.  He's not a salary dump. 

The point I was making is that he's the only potental current ML player they have who they might be willing to trade. They're not trading Seager, Pederson is overrated and the rest of their players are too old to target. So if you think we need to get a ML player back in the trade, and you're not a Puig believer, then the Dodgers are not a a fit.