Is Dan Duquette thinking of Trumbo as an outfielder?

[Aristotelian]

1 minute ago, backwardsk said:

I believe he traded for Trumbo as insurance if the Davis deal didn't get done.  Then as a DH while signing Fowler.  When Fowler did what he did, the went after Alvarez.

True, but he could have signed Bourn or somebody if he really wanted Trumbo to DH. 

[backwardsk]

Just now, Aristotelian said:

True, but he could have signed Bourn or somebody if he really wanted Trumbo to DH. 

Could he?  It was right at the beginning of ST when Fowler fell apart.  Were OFers available?  Bourn was not.

[wildcard]

54 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Joey was a poor defensive outfielder last season.

Poor.

Tavarez has a career OBP of 320 in the minors.  Folks made a big deal about Rickard's OBP in the minors last year, how did that work out?  I'll give you a hint, it dropped over 70 points.

They look to be trying to get a FA to slot in at DH so I am not sure why you are acting like Mancini is an answer.

I don't agree that Joey's defense is poor.  Average is more like it.  And he is still at an age where he can improve.

Tavarez and Mancini are players that may develop.  They have the potential from their minor league years to grow into OBP guy.  Maybe.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, wildcard said:

I don't agree that Joey's defense is poor.  Average is more like it.  And he is still at an age where he can improve.

Tavarez and Mancini are players that may develop.  They have the potential from their minor league years to grow into OBP guy.  Maybe.

So you disagree with the metrics?

Fine.

I don't.

Frankly I was shocked he was as poor as he was out there.  Kind of reminded me of Nolan in how the sum of the parts is less than expected.

As for improving, defense peaks early, no reason to expect a 26 year old to improve.  Not as if we have a history of guys improving in that regard with the current coaching staff.

[wildcard]

48 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

 

Being considered a DH when you start a contract lowers your expected earnings.  A DH with Trumbo's numbers isn't going to be getting 4 years at 13-14M a year.

 

 

The Jays just gave Morales 3/33.   That does not include deferred money which I have to think is in the O's deal that was offered to Trumbo.  

Morales is 33.   Trumbo in 31.  That is probably why there is a extra year.

 So I think this is DH money in today's market.    Trumbo may want 15-16m per year but the O's are not going there.

[wildcard]

4 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

So you disagree with the metrics?

Fine.

I don't.

Frankly I was shocked he was as poor as he was out there.  Kind of reminded me of Nolan in how the sum of the parts is less than expected.

As for improving, defense peaks early, no reason to expect a 26 year old to improve.  Not as if we have a history of guys improving in that regard with the current coaching staff.

I think players often improve their defense after their rookie year. Outfielders have to get familiar with ball parks and multi deck stadiums.

[Frobby]

14 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I don't agree that Joey's defense is poor.  Average is more like it.  And he is still at an age where he can improve.

Tavarez and Mancini are players that may develop.  They have the potential from their minor league years to grow into OBP guy.  Maybe.

My observation is that Rickard had a hard time for the first 4-6 weeks adjusting to the way the ball carries in the multi-tiered major league parks.    I think he can be an above average corner OF defensively, capable of playing a competent CF when necessary.  I'd take him over Trumbo or Kim 100 times out of 100, even though the defensive metrics suggest they were all about equally poor.

[Can_of_corn]

15 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I think players often improve their defense after their rookie year. Outfielders have to get familiar with ball parks and multi deck stadiums.

Huh. 

Well I am too lazy to fact check that so I will just say that I don't agree. 

So I guess our views cancel each other out. 

[weams]

37 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

So you disagree with the metrics?

Fine.

I don't.

Frankly I was shocked he was as poor as he was out there.  Kind of reminded me of Nolan in how the sum of the parts is less than expected.

As for improving, defense peaks early, no reason to expect a 26 year old to improve.  Not as if we have a history of guys improving in that regard with the current coaching staff.

I believe Joey is poor defensively. And I disagree with the metrics. Also, Trumbo is afraid of walls as was Reimold afraid of broken necks. 

[Frobby]

14 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Huh. 

Well I am too lazy to fact check that so I will just say that I don't agree. 

So I guess our views cancel each other out. 

Guess it depends by what one means by "often."   I expect we'll find out in Rickard's case whether he improves or not.   I think he will.  

[mdbdotcom]

Joey's last play of 2016. Looks like he got hurt because he didn't make the play. 

#roomforimprovement

[El Gordo]

2 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

So you disagree with the metrics?

Fine.

I don't.

Frankly I was shocked he was as poor as he was out there.  Kind of reminded me of Nolan in how the sum of the parts is less than expected.

As for improving, defense peaks early, no reason to expect a 26 year old to improve.  Not as if we have a history of guys improving in that regard with the current coaching staff.

Any one who thinks 503 IN is enough to make a judgment doesn't understand the metrics. If you think he is a poor fielder it's based on your eye test.

[Can_of_corn]

9 minutes ago, El Gordo said:

Any one who thinks 503 IN is enough to make a judgment doesn't understand the metrics. If you think he is a poor fielder it's based on your eye test.

And anyone who thinks he is an average or better defender is not only using the eye test but ignoring what little data exists.

I think I pretty clearly stated that the "eye test" was part of my decision making process.  Do you think the defensive metrics mentioned Nolan?

[El Gordo]

8 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

And anyone who thinks he is an average or better defender is not only using the eye test but ignoring what little data exists.

I think I pretty clearly stated that the "eye test" was part of my decision making process.  Do you think the defensive metrics mentioned Nolan?

Until you have at least two years of data the metrics are pretty useless. Ask Drungo, That would be about 2500 IN. So basing anything on 503 IN is silly. As to my eye, test I agree with Frobby and Buck, he has the tools to be a good OF and there is a period of adjustment toplaying in ML parks. Don't understand your point about Reimold but based on 2752 IN I'd say he's a sub par fielder.

[Can_of_corn]

8 minutes ago, El Gordo said:

Until you have at least two years of data the metrics are pretty useless. Ask Drungo, That would be about 2500 IN. So basing anything on 503 IN is silly. As to my eye, test I agree with Frobby and Buck, he has the tools to be a good OF and there is a period of adjustment toplaying in ML parks. Don't understand your point about Reimold but based on 2752 IN I'd say he's a sub par fielder.

And who said I was basing anything off the metrics?  I'd rather reference an insufficiently large data set than ignore it entirely. 

As for understanding my point about Reimold, I'm not sure what your difficulty is.

I thought I was being clear but I guess I will try and be more clear for you.

Rickard and Reimold are both obviously athletic players with solid arms and above average speed.  You put those factors together you should get at least an average defensive corner outfielder.  Yet neither seem to be.

I watch both of them play (with my eyes) and I am disappointed their play doesn't match their physical skill set.