recruiting update

[Eight]

I have to disagree with you as they went after others harder and earlier- Wright and Freeman, Green who went to Syracuse and Koufus at Ohio St, possibly McClain and Delaney. All are much more talented than the class they ended up with. You point out in your projections that all except Dupree project as career reserves. That being said you need a certain amount of players like that and Md especially needs 4 year kids that graduate.

The Terps never recruited Wright, McClain, or Delaney very hard.

I typed without looking too deeply at things. It certainly appears the ACC is again top heavy. Looks like UNC, Duke and then a crapshoot. It gives me more confidence that MD can finish in the top 4. I still wouldn't project it at this point. Right now, I'd have us behind NC State, Clemson and Virginia but it certainly is more attainable than I originally thought.

What makes you think Duke will be that good this year? They have some talent, but they're very thin in the post (Thomas, Zoubek, and McClure), and the guys they do have aren't very good. They still have a big question mark at point guard with Paulus being the likely starter there again, and he certainly isn't impressive. I see them having another bad season (bad by Duke standards).

I'd also expect Virginia to take a step back. Singletary will keep them respectable, but they're very weak in the post and losing Reynolds will hurt them.

[inmn]

I agree that Duke will stuggle inside as always but are you saying Thomas, Zoubek, or Singler are not skilled players? IMO any of the three easily starts at Maryland.

[inmn]

Co-sign. I appreciate inmn's knowledge, but I respectfully disagree with most of his conclusions. Outside shooting is my one concern, and that's something that is correctible. We've seen guys like Steve Blake come into the program with the shooting touch of a Michael Ruffin and come out as a very solid 3 point shooter.

Ruz,

Thanks, that was nice of you to write-let's hope I am wrong. I do think Md's challenge will be more experience than talent, young teams almost always struggle. I think most will pick Md in the back half of the ACC, but they could finish anywhere from third to tenth. Whether you like Jones, Ibekwe, and Strawberry or not it's difficult to replace two thirds of your scoring and rebounding.

[Eight]

I agree that Duke will stuggle inside as always but are you saying Thomas, Zoubek, or Singler are not skilled players? IMO any of the three easily starts at Maryland.

From what I understand Singler is more suited to playing on the wing. If he plays in the post that helps them, but he's probably best suited to play the 3.

I don't really see how Thomas or Zoubek would start for us next season. Neither would come close to challenging Gist. Thomas can't play the 5 and isn't really a 3, so he wouldn't start. Zoubek was far less impressive than Osby last season. Who do you think those two would start over?

[Jenius]

I do think Md's challenge will be more experience than talent, young teams almost always struggle. I think most will pick Md in the back half of the ACC, but they could finish anywhere from third to tenth. Whether you like Jones, Ibekwe, and Strawberry or not it's difficult to replace two thirds of your scoring and rebounding.

I agree with this...and even though Straw was probably our best overall player last year, I think we'll miss Jones' outside shooting and Ibekwe's interior defense the most. I have more hope that the latter can be replaced this year (by some combination of Dupree, Burney, and Walker). And MJ, for all his flaws...we may not see another pure shooter like him for years...hopefully GV and EH can pick up the slack a little.

Great news about Jennings, BTW!!

[Jenius]

Outside shooting is my one concern, and that's something that is correctible. We've seen guys like Steve Blake come into the program with the shooting touch of a Michael Ruffin and come out as a very solid 3 point shooter.

I basically agree with your point, but did you really compare Blake to Ruffin?

I'm sure you're intentionally exaggerating a bit anyway, but Blake was always a pretty good shooter. He did get better over time, but he was certainly a much better shooter coming in than, say, Bowie and Tucker are reputed to be. I would more think of Strawberry or Gist as an example of your point.

[Ruzious]

I basically agree with your point, but did you really compare Blake to Ruffin?

I'm sure you're intentionally exaggerating a bit anyway, but Blake was always a pretty good shooter. He did get better over time, but he was certainly a much better shooter coming in than, say, Bowie and Tucker are reputed to be. I would more think of Strawberry or Gist as an example of your point.

Blake was always a pretty good shooter? We obviously have very different recollections. Blake was a horrid shooter in his freshman year. He was as natural and pure a point guard as they come from day 1, but teams would dare him to shoot. And this was his rep in high school.

[inmn]

From what I understand Singler is more suited to playing on the wing. If he plays in the post that helps them, but he's probably best suited to play the 3.

I don't really see how Thomas or Zoubek would start for us next season. Neither would come close to challenging Gist. Thomas can't play the 5 and isn't really a 3, so he wouldn't start. Zoubek was far less impressive than Osby last season. Who do you think those two would start over?

Gist obviously starts but don't get so locked in at positions-GW doesn't.

I think Thomas is much more talented than Milbourne and would start before him-I know you will say he is not a pure 3 but neither was NCM. Zoubek and Osby shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence. Zoubek is a consensus AA, a skilled 7 footer that has a much, much higher ceiling than Osby. Osby is a real nice change of pace that gives you 12-13 minutes but he's really only about 6'6" and struggles against talented big men-he's a great energy guy with some post moves and rebounding skills but he's a defensive liability against big 4 & 5's and doesn't handle the ball all that well. Maybe Zoubek ends up as another big man that K doesn't develop, personally I think if he wants to play at the next level he shouldn't be at Duke-but you have to play him based on potential.

[Eight]

NCM was a 3. I'm not sure what he was if he wasn't a 3. He had minimal post skills and pretty good perimeter and ballhandling skills so he certainly wasn't a post except insofar as he was tall enough to play there. I can't remember anyone with Lance Thomas' skillset getting major minutes at the three. Not Strawberry, Mouton, Profit, Dan Miller, Hipp, NCM or anyone who were backups there.

Did you watch Zoubek last year? Were you impressed by anything other than his recruiting ranking? I couldn't care less that he was rated as a five star prospect at this point. He played 78 minutes in dook's last 16 games and made 1 shot from the field. Zoubek was quite bad last year. Are you actually claiming he's better than Osby based on last season?

[inmn]

8,

This began with you stating that Zoubek and Thomas "aren't very good",

I disagree and a lot of people who follow college basketball agree with me.

Maryland and Duke are different teams, their offenses are very different and as a result they ask different things from their players. I think NCM and Thomas have somewhat similar games but if you think NCM's perimeter skills made him success at Md well.............how can you possibly determine what Thomas's skill set is based upon the few times you have seen him? Let alone that he started 18 games as a freshman, how many did Milbourne start?

I am not claiming he had a better year than Osby. I think Zoubek and Thomas are superior players to Milbourne and Osby, I think they will have better college careers. I think one or the other or both start at Md. Don't get me wrong, I think Osby is a wonderful "energy" guy but I don't even think he starts next year as a SR. Zoubek may end up being a stiff, but he has a much higher ceiling, and he adds a different dimension on defense. Before we keep on arguing could you answer two questions for me: how old are you and do you read The Terrapin Times (as it appears you get most of your info from there)?

By the way check out Zoubek's stats for the first 6-7 games last year before he was hurt. Can you name anyone that put up better per minute numbers in the ACC (it was against weak competition)? I could write a whole page on K's missuse of big men and how it has cost him at least one national championship (in San Antonio-I ran into Roy Williams leaving the game and it was the happiest I have ever seen a coach).

[Eight]

8,

This began with you stating that Zoubek and Thomas "aren't very good",

I disagree and a lot of people who follow college basketball agree with me.

Maryland and Duke are different teams, their offenses are very different and as a result they ask different things from their players. I think NCM and Thomas have somewhat similar games but if you think NCM's perimeter skills made him success at Md well.............how can you possibly determine what Thomas's skill set is based upon the few times you have seen him? Let alone that he started 18 games as a freshman, how many did Milbourne start?

I am not claiming he had a better year than Osby. I think Zoubek and Thomas are superior players to Milbourne and Osby, I think they will have better college careers. I think one or the other or both start at Md. Don't get me wrong, I think Osby is a wonderful "energy" guy but I don't even think he starts next year as a SR. Zoubek may end up being a stiff, but he has a much higher ceiling, and he adds a different dimension on defense. Before we keep on arguing could you answer two questions for me: how old are you and do you read The Terrapin Times (as it appears you get most of your info from there)?

By the way check out Zoubek's stats for the first 6-7 games last year before he was hurt. Can you name anyone that put up better per minute numbers in the ACC (it was against weak competition)? I could write a whole page on K's missuse of big men and how it has cost him at least one national championship (in San Antonio-I ran into Roy Williams leaving the game and it was the happiest I have ever seen a coach).

No I don't read Terrapin Times. Not a big fan of Keith Cavanaugh's spin. Not sure what my age has to do with anything. Let's just say I'm old enough to remember when Joe Smith was a Terp.

Osby outperformed Zoubek last season, simple as that. Do you disagree with that?

I agree that Osby doesn't start next year. Dupree is the likely start my the start of ACC play. And that's even more of an indictment of the Duke frontcourt situation if one of their starters was vastly outperformed last season by a guy who will be coming off of the bench for us.

I understand Zoubek is supposed to have the higher ceiling, but based on their performance last year Osby would start over Zoubek here. Zoubek did nothing in conference. He scored five points once all year against any kind of legitimate competition. I couldn't care less about his per minute numbers against Columbia and Air Force and UNC-Greensboro. That's beyond useless as a measure of talent or ability. Zoubek got some minutes and did zero at any point in conference play. Bottom line is Osby has proved himself against ACC comp and he hasn't. He's simply not very good right now. Maybe three years down the line if he reaches he ceiling, but right now, if he's Duke's starter this year, they're in trouble.

Not sure what your point on Thomas is. He's not a perimeter player. I think seeing 25 or so Duke games last year is enough for me to determine that Thomas doesn't have the skill set of a SF. He didn't attempt a single three last year. He's not a perimeter guy. He's a nice enough player, and may or may not be better than Milbourne, but he's a PF, not a SF. When has Maryland, under Gary Williams, started a guy like Lance Thomas at the 3?

[inmn]

8,

I give up!! I bring up your age because in every single post whether it is me or someone else you want to argue, often points such as this which are mostly subjective. He doesn't play on the perimeter at Duke because Duke's motion offense asks him to screen and hit the boards-look at his off rebounds to def rebounds. He also doesn't handle the ball well his TO/Ast ratio is the worst I have ever seen but he is a quality player and superior to anything Md has in the froncourt except Gist.

Take your blinders off. I love Md basketball but get tired of guys like you with no objectivity who think GW doesn't make mistakes and Md's recruiting last year was by design. If you watched 25 Duke games last year without understanding how they run their offense and that K rarely plays big freshman down the stretch not only do you have a sad social life but you really don't know much about basketball. Have you ever played the game?????

[Eight]

8,

I give up!! I bring up your age because in every single post whether it is me or someone else you want to argue, often points such as this which are mostly subjective. He doesn't play on the perimeter at Duke because Duke's motion offense asks him to screen and hit the boards-look at his off rebounds to def rebounds. He also doesn't handle the ball well his TO/Ast ratio is the worst I have ever seen but he is a quality player and superior to anything Md has in the froncourt except Gist.

Take your blinders off. I love Md basketball but get tired of guys like you with no objectivity who think GW doesn't make mistakes and Md's recruiting last year was by design. If you watched 25 Duke games last year without understanding how they run their offense and that K rarely plays big freshman down the stretch not only do you have a sad social life but you really don't know much about basketball. Have you ever played the game?????

Glad we could keep this civil without going down the road of insulting people. I responded to another poster saying why I didn't think they'll be that great. You responded and disagreed. I don't know why you'd bother to respond if you think I'm out to argue and you don't want to discuss the topic, but if you'd like to personally insult me instead of discussing the points I've brought up, that's fine. If you think that Lance Thomas can play the 3 and that Brian Zoubek is a quality player here in August 2007, fine. I'm the one that doesn't understand the game.

[Jenius]

Take your blinders off. I love Md basketball but get tired of guys like you with no objectivity who think GW doesn't make mistakes and Md's recruiting last year was by design. If you watched 25 Duke games last year without understanding how they run their offense and that K rarely plays big freshman down the stretch not only do you have a sad social life but you really don't know much about basketball. Have you ever played the game?????

I wouldn't feel strongly either way in the Zoubek/Thomas/Osby argument, but this tirade (combined with your previous jabs) is completely uncalled for. Can posters who use subjective arguments be obnoxious? Sure, sometimes, although I'm not sure Eight's argument is entirely subjective here. What I do know is that insulting another poster personally as a means of making your own points appear more legitimate is much worse, and more obnoxious, than subjective posting. And from a more neutral point of view, I would say there were valid points made on both sides here...

[topterp21921]

How bout we keep talking about MD basketball instead of Duke basketball.