Orioles to take another shot at extending Machado per Roch

[Roll Tide]

1 minute ago, phillyOs119 said:

The Orioles have made some of the most lopsided positive trades in recent history.  A couple fringe relief prospects for JJ Hardy.  Chris Davis and Tommy Hunter for Koji.  Tilly and Jones for Bedard.

Problem is their deadline deals to make a run have been awful.

[Luke-OH]

31 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Problem is their deadline deals to make a run have been awful.

I agree but generally if you are buying at the deadline, you pay a premium. Especially since second wildcard was instituted. Every team ::cough, Orioles, cough:: thinks they can make a run even if it’s a massive long shot.

 

[weams]

58 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

The  rules are different now...If Machado leaves via Free Agency we get a lot less than before.

A second and a fifth. And the slot money from both. 

[TradeAngelos]

"We tried". 

No ambiguity in that statement at all. Very clear and concise.

I mean offering 8/200 is "trying" right? 

 

 

 

[Can_of_corn]

9 minutes ago, TradeAngelos said:

"We tried". 

No ambiguity in that statement at all. Very clear and concise.

I mean offering 8/200 is "trying" right? 

 

 

 

I mean 200 million is a lot of money. 

[Tryptamine]

Honestly I'm not sure resigning Machado is even a smart move anymore unless you can get him for considerably less than he'll probably get. I mean you're looking at 70ish million between 4 players Davis/Machado/Jones/Trumbo and only one of them is worth their contract. If the FO has a plan to dump Davis then by all means throw 10/300 at Machado, but if not then there's just too many slots that need filling to have that kind of salary eaten up by so few, especally with Schoop due for a nice big raise soon.

[tntoriole]

I agree with and advocated on this board to have either extended him in a long term deal immediately after his second knee surgery...high risk, but it would be a steal now  OR have traded him at the latest during last offseason when he would have commanded an entire system of elite prospects....but neither was the call, so frankly I don’t see that it makes any real difference in just keeping him for the cheap thrill of 2018. 

He ain’t resigning with us now before free agency...would you in his position?  Absolutely not.   And we are going to get basically nothing in return with a half season trade deadline deal.  He is walking and we are going to get zip.   Might as well let it all ride for 2018 and then pick up the post Manny pieces beginning in 2019.

Maybe he will not perform at all for the Yankees or Red Sox or whomever and we can use those dollars elsewhere more effectively than signing him would have achieved.  

[Roll Tide]

1 hour ago, Tryptamine said:

Honestly I'm not sure resigning Machado is even a smart move anymore unless you can get him for considerably less than he'll probably get. I mean you're looking at 70ish million between 4 players Davis/Machado/Jones/Trumbo and only one of them is worth their contract. If the FO has a plan to dump Davis then by all means throw 10/300 at Machado, but if not then there's just too many slots that need filling to have that kind of salary eaten up by so few, especally with Schoop due for a nice big raise soon.

Your on the hook for one more year of Jones and Trumbo after this coming season . After that the 25-30 million comes off the books. They can replace Jones with Mullins and find a inexpensive DH. 

As for Davis the guys who think he can be dumped are dreaming. The on

y way Davis is going would be eating most of the money or finding an equally bad contract to swop.So give up the ghost. 

[Tx Oriole]

2 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

I mean 200 million is a lot of money. 

I agree that's a lot of money. 

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, Tx Oriole said:

I agree that's a lot of money. 

Not if someone else is willing to go 300.

[Tx Oriole]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Not if someone else is willing to go 300.

Wonder if Cards would go that for Manny? 

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

8 hours ago, phillyOs119 said:

The Orioles have made some of the most lopsided positive trades in recent history.  A couple fringe relief prospects for JJ Hardy.  Chris Davis and Tommy Hunter for Koji.  Tilly and Jones for Bedard.

Those were all trades made by Andy MacPhail and not Dan Duquette.  Huge difference.  

[Luke-OH]

19 minutes ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

Those were all trades made by Andy MacPhail and not Dan Duquette.  Huge difference.  

Good Trades

Miranda for Miley didn't work out as hoped, but that was great value for Miranda who wasn't much of anything.

Jones for Brach, pretty fair trade at the time, worked out well for the Orioles obviously

Tobias Myers for Beckham may or may not be a great trade, but again great value getting an average MLB SS for a guy who has thrown 30 short season innings and doesn't have wow stuff.

Gallardo for Smith was good value and worked out pretty well.

Cleavinger for Trumbo was good value and worked out well, it would have worked out better if they didn't resign Davis and then didn't resign Trumbo, but that doesn't take away from the trade.

E Rod. for Miller was an example of a good deadline acquisition, you don't get something for nothing 

 

Bad Trades

Davies for Parra, anyone who has ever looked at advanced stats knew Parra was due for a huge regression

Kim, Cleavinger, and slot money for Hellickson, not big consequences but not a smart trade and pretty obviously not a smart trade IMO

Tarpley, Brault for Snider worked out badly, but it made sense at the time, Brault turned into something but was the secondary piece in the deal.

Hader+ for Norris was pretty fair at the time, this is pretty neutral to me.

There are a bunch of other small ones, that weren't of much importance.  I thought Lino for Thome wasn't good, and Heim for Pearce was good but none of the players in either deal did much. De Aza and Bourn trades were ok.

 

That's not a bad record IMO, I'd trust Duquette to sell assets.

[Frobby]

11 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Not if someone else is willing to go 300.

Which will happen, but not for 8 years.    

[Frobby]

13 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Oh really?   Stanton got 10/300.  Manny is a great year (and maybe it doesn't even have to be great) from doing as well or better.

Stanton got 13/$325, mm not 10/$300 mm.    Take out the two non-FA seasons covered in that deal, and he got 11/$301.5 mm, average of $27.4 mm/yr.   Or, cut off the last 3 years of his deal and the first 8 FA years would be 8/$215.5 mm, an average of $26.9 mm/yr.    If Manny got 8/$300 mm, that would be $37.5 mm/yr.     I don’t think he’s getting that.   If he gets $300 mm+, I think the deal will be for at least 10 years.