Assume we don’t trade Manny and he walks

[Can_of_corn]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

“At this point” being a key phrase.   Hardy was a very key member of the team when Manny arrived, and won Gold Gloves from 2012-14, valued overall at 10.5 rWAR in that span.   The O’s certainly weren’t going to move him off SS then, nor did they sign him for 3/$38 mm planning to move him from SS.    Even though Hardy was just average defensively (and a strong negative on offense) in 2015, I think you can chalk that up to injuries, and he returned to being a solid SS in 2016.     It’s really only in 2017 that it became clear he was done being an above average player, and the O’s reacted by trading for Beckham.

Should have hit him with a QO, taken the pick and moved Manny to short.  Some of us said as much at the time.

[weams]

On 11/24/2017 at 4:39 PM, Frobby said:

You’re guessing at what Manny wants, and frankly, what he wants is secondary to what’s best for the team.   If Buck decides, from a baseball standpoint, that Manny at SS is our best alignment, I’m fine with that, but I see no reason why Manny’s feelings come into this unless he’s signed a long-term deal and that has been part of the discussion.    

My personal opinion is that Beckham at SS, Manny at 3B is our best alignment.    But that’s for Buck to decide.   

I agree with everything in your post. 

[El Gordo]

13 hours ago, Frobby said:

So if Manny wants to play SS and won’t extend without that, does that make him a team first guy?

I actually think you’re not giving Manny enough credit.    I think Manny wants to win and will play wherever the manager thinks best, and won’t sulk about it.     Also, last week on Wall to Wall Baseball, Roch says he’s heard that Manny is on the fence about whether he’d be better off at SS or 3B, due to the extra wear and tear at SS.   So I don’t think it’s a given at all that leaving Manny at 3B would cause issues with Manny.

Also, I said nothing in my post about catering to Beckham.    It’s a matter of what defensive alignment Buck decides is best.    Manny has won a Platinum Glove and a Gold Glove at 3B and undoubtedly is one of the best in the game there.    Beckham’s metrics have him slightly above average overall at SS, though to be certain, he’s more error-prone than we’d like.    Who’s to say that switching them wouldn’t be a worse alignment?     Manny’s had far more pro experience at 3B than SS, and Beckham has started 5 games at 3B in his entire big league career.    I think it’s highly unlikely that we’d improve the defense by having them switch positions.    But again, all I’m saying is that Buck should decide that.   

TZ has Beckham at a -4 Rtot at SS in 70 IN at TB and +5 at SS for BAL in 40 IN.at SS.   SSS for sure but a possible indication that he responded well to JJ's and Dickerson's coaching.

[mdbdotcom]

I could see this season becoming all about whether or not Manny stays or goes. That would be a pretty awful season.

[OriolesMagic83]

On 11/24/2017 at 8:05 AM, sportsfan8703 said:

We need to just offer Manny 10/300 and stop messing around.  Just stagger it so it doesn't start hitting big until after AJ, Trumbo, and O'day come off the books.  

At this point get creative.  Promise Manny that he can play SS and lock up Schoop too.  Sell him on the idea of he and Schoop being a double play combo for a long time.  

I say pay Manny and let him relax.  He's been a team guy so far to play 3rd.  Some of the best 3rd of all time.  Give him is big payday and the position he wants to play.  Plus bat him 3rd.  Sell him on the idea that he's going to be able to play with his boy Schoop, at the position he wants, and be able to go down as one of the greatest SS's ever.  That's the type of sell job it's going to take to keep him away from the NYY.  

I wish the O's had made their best effort to sign Manny and Schoop 2 years ago.  The O's could have probably signed Manny and Schoop long term for less than what it will take to sign Manny.  A competent organization would know what it would take to sign Manny by now.  I doubt the O's have any idea.

[El Gordo]

On 11/26/2017 at 9:14 AM, OriolesMagic83 said:

I wish the O's had made their best effort to sign Manny and Schoop 2 years ago.  The O's could have probably signed Manny and Schoop long term for less than what it will take to sign Manny.  A competent organization would know what it would take to sign Manny by now.  I doubt the O's have any idea.

They did two years ago. The negotiations fell through at the last minute.