It's beginning to look a lot like... 1998

[TommyPickles]

19 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

It's starting to look a lot like Philly.

Oh wait that started when they brought Davis back.

At least they won a WS.

Phillies won the NL East in 07, 08, 09, 10, and 11.

They won the NLCS in 08 and 09.

They won the World Series in 08.

Thats a hell of a nice run. And now they're stacking up some real nice prospects and pieces. Would love to see the Os win the AL East five years in a row...

(Also, for the record, I don't think this is the beginning of another 14 losing seasons. I think we'll be back in the playoffs sometime in the next three years.)

[Frobby]

7 hours ago, weams said:

Also. Andy MacPhail is the reason Peter Angelo will not pay millions to 16 year old Dominicans. 

Though MacPhail has done so several times in Philadelphia.   Angelos needs to adjust to the significant changes in the market since MacPhail’s time, and especially, the changes in the CBA since then.    

[tntoriole]

7 hours ago, Redskins Rick said:

I have been vocal in saying that both desire credit.

Andy got Angelos to be less meddling and micromanaging.

Andy got Angelos to invest into Sarasota, which was drastically needed and the Orioles were pretty much the laughingstock of ST. Which they no longer are.

Andy started the team on the rebuilding path.

Obviously DD gets lots of credit for the moves after Andy, and DD will be the first to tell you and has said, that Andy does deserve credit for getting the ship uprighted.

Andy did much more than that.  Adam Jones and Chris Tillman for Bedard was arguably the best trade since the Frank Robinson deal.  The trade for JJ Hardy was a tremendous win for the Orioles.  Revamping the scouting sytem and the selections of Manny,  signing Schoop as an international free agent in 2008 were critical steps.  Without these wins that established a core of excellence, Dan wins nothing with his subsequent add ins. 

[tntoriole]

7 hours ago, weams said:

I am a huge Andy Macphail fan. He could not have won in Baltimore. 

I believe he could have and he would have.   And he likely would have made better trades and signings than Dan has made...see Arrieta, see Parra, see Ubaldo, see Gallardo, see Travis Snider etc.   But we can never know.  

[weams]

45 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Though MacPhail has done so several times in Philadelphia.   Angelos needs to adjust to the significant changes in the market since MacPhail’s time, and especially, the changes in the CBA since then.    

Agreed. But Peter can't unknow the things Andy revealed. 

[Can_of_corn]

17 minutes ago, weams said:

Agreed. But Peter can't unknow the things Andy revealed. 

I don't recall Peter spending big on young International talent before Andy showed up.

Am I forgetting someone?

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, tntoriole said:

I believe he could have and he would have.   And he likely would have made better trades and signings than Dan has made...see Arrieta, see Parra, see Ubaldo, see Gallardo, see Travis Snider etc.   But we can never know.  

He chose to leave.   Maybe it was for family reasons as he said; maybe not.    But he bears the burden of that.    We lost while he was here, and he’ll never be able to prove we would have done as well or better if he’d stayed.    That was his choice.   

[tntoriole]

3 hours ago, Frobby said:

He chose to leave.   Maybe it was for family reasons as he said; maybe not.    But he bears the burden of that.    We lost while he was here, and he’ll never be able to prove we would have done as well or better if he’d stayed.    That was his choice.   

His father, Lee, who brought Frank to Baltimore, had been ill for some time and Andy apparently chose to spend quality time with him before he passed in 2012 at 95.  He likely believes he made the right choice for him and his family.  But just because the team won in the immediate years thereafter does not mean Dan gets the lion share of credit, imho.   Andy did the hard work of the rebuild and I will always give him credit for a large part of the 2012-2014 run. 

[tntoriole]

4 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't recall Peter spending big on young International talent before Andy showed up.

Am I forgetting someone?

It seems that some teams along with the Orioles do feel the Dominican market has been overpriced for quite some time compared to other Latin American and Asian markets particularly as related to young teenage pitching prospects.  Orioles did sign Jonathan Schoop out of Curacao, which was a lot cheaper market than Dominican.  Similarly the signings of Kim, Chen, Miggy Gonzalez all from cheaper markets.    

[Frobby]

37 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

His father, Lee, who brought Frank to Baltimore, had been ill for some time and Andy apparently chose to spend quality time with him before he passed in 2012 at 95.  He likely believes he made the right choice for him and his family.  But just because the team won in the immediate years thereafter does not mean Dan gets the lion share of credit, imho.   Andy did the hard work of the rebuild and I will always give him credit for a large part of the 2012-2014 run. 

Giving him some of the credit is fine.   Speculating that the team would have done better if Andy had stayed than its done under Duquette is a whole different issue.   And I’m by no means criticizing Andy for deciding to leave.

[Il BuonO]

5 hours ago, Frobby said:

Though MacPhail has done so several times in Philadelphia.   Angelos needs to adjust to the significant changes in the market since MacPhail’s time, and especially, the changes in the CBA since then.    

He won’t.

 

43 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

It seems that some teams along with the Orioles do feel the Dominican market has been overpriced for quite some time compared to other Latin American and Asian markets particularly as related to young teenage pitching prospects.  Orioles did sign Jonathan Schoop out of Curacao, which was a lot cheaper market than Dominican.  Similarly the signings of Kim, Chen, Miggy Gonzalez all from cheaper markets.    

Curaçao is cheaper because there’s less talent, but Schoop was still signed with international money. It is utterly idiotic that they spent no international money this past July, while teams in their own division continue stockpiling talent.

[oriolesacox]

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/21693459/rafael-palmeiro-53-wants-make-back-mlb

Lets really make it feel like 98!

[ScGO's]

On 12/5/2017 at 8:27 PM, tntoriole said:

 

So which players would the other GM options other than Duquette have traded international money for?

[tntoriole]

5 hours ago, ScGO's said:

So which players would the other GM options other than Duquette have traded international money for?

I am not sure about your question...but here is an example of Thad Levine GM of the Twins trading his international pool money to the Angels and the Mariners for American minor league prospects because the Angels and Mariners are in the Ohtani pursuit. 

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/263036538/twins-trade-for-prospects-banuelos-pearson/

[SteveA]

18 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

I am not sure about your question...but here is an example of Thad Levine GM of the Twins trading his international pool money to the Angels and the Mariners for American minor league prospects because the Angels and Mariners are in the Ohtani pursuit. 

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/263036538/twins-trade-for-prospects-banuelos-pearson/

Right.   But correct me if I am wrong...I don't think ANYONE anticipated that Ohtani would be coming to the US under the auspices of being an international free agent on par iwth a 16 year old Dominican or Venezuelan, only able to sign a minor league contract with the cap set by a team's international signing bonus allotment, and waiting 3 years to be eligible for arbitration, etc.

People either thought:

   -- he would wait until he was 25 and could get real money

or

   -- he would be grandfathered in as an exception to the new CBA and it would be a veteran free market for him

It was only a few weeks ago that the announcement was made that the rules are the way they are.   So on that date, the value of international signing bonus money went WAY up, because now it could be a factor in getting Ohtani.

So you can't judge DD's trades of ISB$ before that was known against what the Twins were able to get.

You can certainly regret those deals now because if we had kept our ISB$ we could have picked up a really good prospect or two.   But I don't think many people predicted it would work out like this.