Perfect time for Angelos to sell the team?

[Ulikadaorioles?]

If PA were to slip into the next life. (RIP) What would happen to the Orioles?

[Frobby]

43 minutes ago, MDtransplant757 said:

Literally if Angelos sold the team, party at my house. My guess is that he dies, the inheritance tax screws the pooch (kids would have to pay north of $1 billion for MASN, the O’s and the lawfirm). If that doesn’t happen, MLB and the owners have been known over the years to be a spiteful bunch 

As I’ve mentioned before, you can’t really “inherit” a law firm.   

[LookitsPuck]

Strongly doubt Peter sells the team. Chances are it'll be passed on to his son. Those chances go up exponentially if the Republicans in Congress have their way with this tax bill and nix the estate tax.

[jabba72]

1 hour ago, LookitsPuck said:

Strongly doubt Peter sells the team. Chances are it'll be passed on to his son. Those chances go up exponentially if the Republicans in Congress have their way with this tax bill and nix the estate tax.

This is what I think will happen. but if John doesn't want to mess with inheritance and would rather take the billion, he might just wish to do that. Angelos seems to use the team as a platform for his philanthropy. I dont know if John sees the team or himself that way.  

[MDtransplant757]

1 hour ago, LookitsPuck said:

Strongly doubt Peter sells the team. Chances are it'll be passed on to his son. Those chances go up exponentially if the Republicans in Congress have their way with this tax bill and nix the estate tax.

I thought it was the estate tax was state by state, as I don't think NC has it. 

[MDtransplant757]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

As I’ve mentioned before, you can’t really “inherit” a law firm.   

It depends on how the will is structured, as he seems to be the sole partner in his firm. 

[atomic]

On 12/9/2017 at 6:54 PM, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

Can we retire the whole Angelos saved the Orioles from moving myth once and for all?  He bought the team in the summer of 1993, the Orioles were already in their second season at Camden Yards.  No owner is going to move a team playing at Camden Yards.

Angelos family shear incompetence has turned fans away.  

If only Bill DeWitt had outbid Angelos.  

Well he couldn't have moved it if he wanted to as he had a lease.  The lease runs through 2021 so he did not save anything.  2021 is the first time since he bought the club that it could be moved.  

[spiritof66]

1 hour ago, Ulikadaorioles? said:

If PA were to slip into the next life. (RIP) What would happen to the Orioles?

There's been a lot of discussion on this board about what might happen. I'll try to boil it down.

Upon Peter Angelos's death, his majority ownership of the Orioles would go to whomever he specifies in his will. It's generally assumed that would be Peter's two sons.  It could be Peter's wife, or some combination. (It's possible that contractual arrangements give minority owners of the Orioles rights to buy some or all of Peter's shares, but that seems unlikely.)

If the 40 percent federal estate tax is in effect at the time of Peter's death, and if an interest in the team is passed on to anyone other than Peter's wife, the estate will face a huge, multi-hundred billion dollar bill (including state inheritance tax as well as the federal tax). There would almost certainly be a dispute between the estate and the IRS over the value of the estate (especially the value of the Orioles and their interest in MASN). The estate might or might not be able to raise the cash to pay those taxes, perhaps by having the Orioles sell their interest in MASN or by bringing in new investors for the team. Valuing or selling MASN before the rights-fee dispute with the Nats gets resolved will be very difficult. Insofar as Peter leaves his interest to his wife, the taxes would be deferred until her death.

I believe that, if Peter leaves the team to his sons, after these taxes have been paid (assuming, again, that the federal estate tax stays in place) they will not have enough resources to operate the team without bringing in additional investors -- who probably will want a voice in how the team is run. Nobody has claimed any real knowledge about Peter's cash and other resources outside the Orioles, and some have expressed the view that those resources would be sufficient, after taxes, to enable his sons to operate the team without additional capital.

If there is no federal estate tax at the time of Peter's death -- as was the case with George Steinbrenner, whose estate had zero tax liabilities -- the estate will face a more modest tax burden: the state tax and possibly federal income taxes on the appreciation of Peter's interest since he purchased that interest in 1993 (and smaller amounts, I believe, purchased since then.

It's generally believed that if Peter passes his interest in the team on to his sons, they will want to keep it.. They can do so only with the approval of half of the other team owners. I believe that, given the long-running enmity between Angelos and MLB, there is a good chance such approval will be denied if the estate tax drains the team and its owners of the financial ability to invest in it. Others disagree, and believe such approval would be given as it has been for the heirs of other owners. My further guess is that MLB has a prospective buyer, or a few candidates, lined up to propose a deal upon Peter's death.

Simple, right? 

 

 

[Frobby]

3 hours ago, MDtransplant757 said:

I thought it was the estate tax was state by state, as I don't think NC has it. 

I can’t speak to which states have their own estate tax, but there most certainly is a federal estate tax, though it only kicks in at $5.49 mm for an individual, $10.98 mm for a married couple.   In other words, only rich people have to pay it.

[MDtransplant757]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I can’t speak to which states have their own estate tax, but there most certainly is a federal estate tax, though it only kicks in at $5.49 mm for an individual, $10.98 mm for a married couple.   In other words, only rich people have to pay it.

Rich people like Angelos. I had no idea the percentage of the estate tax in the state of MD and how the federal tax will impact it. The Angelos brothers will still have to pay out lots of money to keep the team due to MASN adding value, along with the law firm and Peter's various other investments. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/legalnewsline/2017/11/13/peter-angelos-asbestos-firm-facing-the-loss-of-thousands-of-lawsuits-wants-lawmakers-help/#4d6091ef2eae

This could also be huge and make him sell before he dies. 

[Frobby]

25 minutes ago, MDtransplant757 said:

Rich people like Angelos. I had no idea the percentage of the estate tax in the state of MD and how the federal tax will impact it. The Angelos brothers will still have to pay out lots of money to keep the team due to MASN adding value, along with the law firm and Peter's various other investments. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/legalnewsline/2017/11/13/peter-angelos-asbestos-firm-facing-the-loss-of-thousands-of-lawsuits-wants-lawmakers-help/#4d6091ef2eae

This could also be huge and make him sell before he dies. 

Very interesting.   

[MDtransplant757]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

Very interesting.   

How ironic would it be that the legislators that he's lobbied and campaigned for since he's been able to vote screws him over massively leading to him selling off on of his most prized assets? I'd get a chuckle out of it

[spiritof66]

4 hours ago, Frobby said:

I can’t speak to which states have their own estate tax, but there most certainly is a federal estate tax, though it only kicks in at $5.49 mm for an individual, $10.98 mm for a married couple.   In other words, only rich people have to pay it.

The federal estate tax rate is 40 percent. Maryland has an estate tax, and the top rate appears to be 16 percent.  (Steinbrenner was a resident of Florida, which has no estate tax.)

[Luke-OH]

4 hours ago, MDtransplant757 said:

How ironic would it be that the legislators that he's lobbied and campaigned for since he's been able to vote screws him over massively leading to him selling off on of his most prized assets? I'd get a chuckle out of it

Not to get into politics but I assume he is aware of the positions of the politicians he has supported and how those positions affect his personal finances.

[$Greatness$]

On 12/9/2017 at 1:27 PM, tntoriole said:

I have been as critical of Potter as anyone, but I refuse to be just completely wrapped up in the idea that Angelos is the cause of every loss we have ever had and that nothing can ever improve.  We just went through 2012-2016 winning more games than anyone in the AL with the same owner. 

Yes, I would love a change...which is going to happen sooner rather than later as it does to all men on this earth...and I have no idea what kind of owner John Angelos will be. Maybe he will be outstanding, who knows?   If they sell, the fantasy would be that the new owner would be better, although there are plenty of idiot billionaires.  But, yes, I would love to see a new regime top to bottom.   And I hope they change leagues or division. 

 

Why would you want to change leagues or divisions? Don't tell me you're one of those people who thinks life will be better if we weren't in the AL East? If so, stop being one of those people.