If we could trade Angelos/ownership...

[Catch 8]

Part 1) Suppose new ownership is random. Give your best offer to simply read the headline "Angelos sells Orioles."

Part 2) Suppose new ownership is someone we view favorably, such as Bisciotti.  Give your best offer.

Offers may consist of players, prospects and trade-able draft picks.

For example, I would trade our Top 20 and Machado for scenario 2.

[Tx Oriole]

1 hour ago, Catch 8 said:

Part 1) Suppose new ownership is random. Give your best offer to simply read the headline "Angelos sells Orioles."

Part 2) Suppose new ownership is someone we view favorably, such as Bisciotti.  Give your best offer.

Offers may consist of players, prospects and trade-able draft picks.

For example, I would trade our Top 20 and Machado for scenario 2.

I don't care. I just want Angelos out of the picture. That man has ruined the Orioles. Time for him to sell. 

 

 

[joelala]

Ha this is a fun concept. 

Can I include my soul in the package?

If we got a proven owner with deep pockets, someone like Mark Cuban or something, there would be nothing on our team or in our system that I wouldn't give up for something like that.

If only.

[Frobby]

I’d trade Angelos for a fetus to be named later.    

[OFFNY]

10 hours ago, Catch 8 said:

 

Part 1) lll Suppose new ownership is random. Give your best offer to simply read the headline, "Angelos sells Orioles."

Part 2)  lll Suppose that the new ownership is someone we view favorably, such as Bisciotti.  Give your best offer.

Offers may consist of players, prospects and trade-able draft picks.

For example, I would trade our Top 20 and Machado for scenario 2.

 

o

 

After convincing a bank to loan me the money (of which I would assure them that I would pay back in its entirety shortly afterward), I would have Angelos sell the team to me. Then I would talk him into buying it back from me for $5 Million more than I bought it from him for, and live off of the interest of the profit.

Then, there would be countless threads on the Orioles Hangout about how Patrick Colon ruined the Orioles because he cared more about his own financial well-being than he did about his Orioles fandom.

 

o

[spiritof66]

8 hours ago, Catch 8 said:

Part 1) Suppose new ownership is random. Give your best offer to simply read the headline "Angelos sells Orioles."

Part 2) Suppose new ownership is someone we view favorably, such as Bisciotti.  Give your best offer.

Offers may consist of players, prospects and trade-able draft picks.

For example, I would trade our Top 20 and Machado for scenario 2.

The appropriate trade package would have to include Davis and Trumbo .  

[TradeAngelos]

I feel like I inspired this thread. I am honored. 

[Tx Oriole]

2 hours ago, Black Bat said:

I would ask everyone here how things would change knowing that they are operating at a loss annually.  Yeah, he's more than a tad eccentric demanding exhaustive physicals and rarely ponying up for big contracts but who would with a net loss?  I can envision a worse scenario by means of spending.  Be careful of what you ask for.  The next owner can be even more frugal with the prevailing attendance figures added upon the MASN ruling.

Remember, he did extend Chris Davis, a fan favorite and has retained AJ, Hardy among other fan favorites.  

We spoke of this drastic downturn in attendance last season (at least I did) and it seemed that most if not all of you were silent on that revelation and continue to be aghast by not extending Manny.  They can't.  It's that simple.  This is the impetus toward my calls for a complete revamp of the team by ridding ourselves of the bloated contracts that remain and going with young controlled prospects.

I'd like complete overhaul of the team too. IMO Angelos doesn't trust DD as his GM and has given Buck to much say so on players. So yes I wish for another owner. 

[jabba72]

I have to believe his sons are not this bad. I cant imagine them being any worse.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, jabba72 said:

I have to believe his sons are not this bad. I cant imagine them being any worse.

It can always get worse.

[jabba72]

I hope we get to find out the sooner the better. 

[Bradysburns]

6 minutes ago, jabba72 said:

I have to believe his sons are not this bad. I cant imagine them being any worse.

From what I've heard of John Angelos, he sounds really, really sharp. He sees the playing field, so to speak. I'd like to see what John could do without the old man's interference. We might have a great young owner in the wings. Or... he could be awful. In fact, who knows if he'll even own the team after PA dies. 

Look what happened to Jack Kent Cooke's son! 

 

[mdbdotcom]

Angelos would never pass the physical.

[Can_of_corn]

1 hour ago, Bradysburns said:

From what I've heard of John Angelos, he sounds really, really sharp. He sees the playing field, so to speak. I'd like to see what John could do without the old man's interference. We might have a great young owner in the wings. Or... he could be awful. In fact, who knows if he'll even own the team after PA dies. 

Look what happened to Jack Kent Cooke's son! 

 

Do you think Angelos would specifically write John out of a controlling interest in the team?

 

[spiritof66]

A few observations on the Orioles as they relate to future ownership:

• The Orioles are operating around break-even, mainly because they have a payroll that is higher than their revenues justify. Whether they can make a significant profit in the next few years will depend on the outcome of the MASN dispute. The Orioles have been fortunate and resourceful in keeping that ball in the air for over three years since they got clobbered in the arbitration, but I'm guessing this will get resolved in 2019 if not sooner. And the outlook is not bright.
• The arrival and success of the Nats have bumped the Orioles from being above the middle-of-the-pack in revenues to somewhere in the bottom half, probably in the lower third (again, hard to peg precisely because of the uncertainty about MASN). Unless there is a change in the demographics of Baltimore or Washington, or a dramatic decline in the Nats' performance, I don't see how that situation will improve, and it's likely to get worse as the Nats' fan base in Washington and its suburbs matures at the Orioles' expense.  The Orioles have to recognize and adjust to their declining circumstances. 
• The  Orioles have supported their relatively excessive ML payrolls, in part, by not spending  like other teams on international scouting, drafting and player development, and instead using their allocated international draft money as an asset in bringing in talent from other sources. That decision has placed them at a significant competitive disadvantage. The Orioles bring less international talent through their system to the ML club. But there is a broader effect on the way the Orioles build their roster. Teams use their minor league systems to bring in and develop  players who (1) can be promoted to the ML team at a low cost, and (2) can be used in trades (especially but not only where prospects are redundant of each other or of the team's ML talent) for missing pieces needed to boost a contending ML club. By most estimates the Orioles have done pretty well recently in drafting and acquiring other teams' unprotected players, but they have lacked and continue to lack MiL depth. Without that depth, the Orioles have been able to deploy their prospects to promote or to trade, but have been hard-pressed to do both. I have not studied this, but a quick look at  teams with highly rated MiL systems strongly suggests that to have the kind of depth that enables a team to use its MiL system both to feed the ML club and and to trade for needed pieces requires a team to draft, sign and develop young Latin American players.
• In recent years, there's been a general upgrade in the wealth and intelligence of MLB owners, almost all of whom made the fortune needed to buy a team  in a field other than baseball. Many  have financial resources that enable them to forgo making large profits from the team, at least for short periods when spending more may enable those teams to become or continue to be contenders. (Miami's new owner may be an exception.) It appears that most of the new owners either have applied their intellectual talent and curiosity to understand something about how to build a team or are smart enough to leave those decisions to their hired baseball experts. The era of teams run by heirs who might not bring much to the table other than their birthrights -- the Stoneham, Comiskey, Griffith types -- is largely over.  (That regime survives in New York, where it looms as yet another disaster for the Mets, and Hal Steinbrenner appears to have taken a reduced role after his brother entered into a contract with ARod that would have financially crippled almost any other team.)
• As I've written before, unless the estate tax is repealed or altered significantly, if Peter Angelos's son or sons inherit the team it's likely that they will be strapped for cash to operate it (since most of Peter's reported liquid assets would be eaten up in federal and Maryland taxes) -- unless they bring in additional outside investors who are willing to put up hundreds of millions of dollars with no assurance or personal need for a significant return on that investment until the team is sold. I'm not sure that the required majority of MLB owners would approve a transfer of ownership to either or both of John and Lou Angelos, given the likelihood that their resources would be limited and their antipathy for their father. 
• John and Lou Angelos both seem like pretty decent guys, and I don't  know, but doubt, that they've inherited the arrogance,  short-sightedness, indecisiveness, gutlessness or self-righteousness that have hurt the Orioles since their father took over. I don't know that either has any record of accomplishment, in running a business or generating wealth or otherwise, or has come up with any ideas or strategies to improve the Orioles or any other enterprise. It looks like neither has ever sought or obtained a job of any kind. Both practiced law (Lou is still listed on his father's firm's website), apparently without distinction. John is supposed to be in charge of the team's marketing and promotion, and I think it's fair to say that has not been a success under his direction. Both keep a low profile, and they may have qualities and abilities beyond what I can find on the Internet. 

Here's what I take from the above:

It's critical that the new owner recognize the changed financial circumstances that the Orioles are in, and the need to make changes that will enable them to compete from a reduced (relative to other teams) revenue base. (It's critical that the current owner do that, too, but that's a lost cause.) 

Having the team inherited by one or both Angelos sons may make us feel better by giving us an owner who is more open and candid, and less of a meddler and repellent of management talent, than his/their father -- a low standard, to be sure. (The reduction in meddling is uncertain. John, in particular, may be under the illusion that, having been in a position of authority with the Orioles for 15 years or so, including the relative successful seasons beginning in 2012,  he should be closely involved in decisions.) But the real problem is that there's no reason to believe the Angeloses will  have the foresight and the ability to  make the important adjustments that will be needed for the orioles to enjoy any success against their better-heeled rivals. In particular, they are likely to be unwilling, and may be unable, to invest the tens of millions of dollars that will be needed to build an international infrastructure and bring large numbers of talented Latin American youngsters into the fold. In the worst case, they may buy into the bromide that the Orioles have not participated in that market based on Peter's dumb-ass "principle," and that his position should be adhered to. We need  a new direction, and I'm very dubious we'll get it from these guys, nice and presentable as they may be. 

The New Year traditionally is a time for wishes and hopes for the future., including some that are extravagant. So here's my wish list for the next owner of the Orioles. He or she should be someone -- or,  more likely -- a group of someones -- who (a) recognizes that the Orioles are now among the smaller-revenue markets in MLB, and have to be operated accordingly, (b) consistent with that recognition, is committed to building the team smartly and cost-effectively, through player development and trades rather than free-agent signings, (c) is willing and able to invest in international development that will, within a few years, allow the Orioles to acquire and develop talent to build their MiL depth, (d) understands and acknowledges to the fans that in some years the Orioles won't be able to compete for the postseason, (e) is respected by the other owners, (f) can and will speak effectively about the competitive difficulties faced by lower-revenue teams, especially those in the  East and West divisions, (g) will not be reliant on substantial income from this investment, which may be small or non-existent, and (h) will hire talented men and women, some of them under 40, to oversee baseball operations, will hire and promote creative men and women to breathe life into the team's marketing and promotion, and will support them and stay out of their way.. 

Easy, right? Nominations are open. (I believe Patrick has already nominated himself. )