Dan talking "offers and physicals" with a RF target

[Frobby]

2 minutes ago, Il BuonO said:

Good points here, though, I see Hays inexperience as a small barrier to improvement. Also, he had been playing quite a bit of CF. When they brought him up he played more RF, which isn’t the easiest spot at CY to learn on the fly. 

He made a fantastic running catch jumping and smashing into the wall as he was heading into the corner at full speed in a game I attended late in the year (Sept. 23).

[wildcard]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

A couple of points:

1.   The thing about Jones is, he looks good out there.    He runs in a very smooth, seemingly effortless manner, he’s quite athletic, and he makes it look easy.     His below average range is hard to spot, for the most part.    

2.    Based on what little I saw of Hays last year, his lack of experience hurts him a bit.    He was slow to react and/or took bad routes a few times in the 20 games he played.    And while he may cover as much ground as Jones or more, he doesn’t make it look easy the way Jones does.    He’s more of an Eric Byrnes type.

Overall, my sense is they’re both below average in CF, though Hays can probably work his way up to average while Jones is headed downhill.    Also, Hays has the better arm at this stage; his arm is probably about as good as Jones’ was in his prime, and Adam does not throw as well as he used to.   

I don't see how any discussion of Jones fielding  can not include  the way he plays hurt.    When he is not beat up he still has good range.  He still drives for balls.  But when he is hurt it shows in his range.   Buck needs to rest him more.   And maybe now that the O's have Hays and Mullins he will.    As far as Jones throwing, you are seeing something that I am not.  Not saying you are wrong.  I just didn't see it.  I think he still has a strong accurate arm.

As far as the fielding metrics.  They have never liked Jones.   Yet his peers vote him as one of the best fielder....when he is not injured.

[Il BuonO]

15 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I don't see how any discussion of Jones fielding  can not include  the way he plays hurt.    When he is not beat up he still has good range.  He still drives for balls.  But when he is hurt it shows in his range.   Buck needs to rest him more.   And maybe now that the O's have Hays and Mullins he will.    As far as Jones throwing, you are seeing something that I am not.  Not saying you are wrong.  I just didn't see it.  I think he still has a strong accurate arm.

As far as the fielding metrics.  They have never liked Jones.   Yet his peers vote him as one of the best fielder....when he is not injured.

He shouldn’t play when he’s hurt. He risks extending the amount of time he’s injured and it’s detrimental to the team. Jones has said as much regarding rest and his health.

[Frobby]

4 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I don't see how any discussion of Jones fielding  can not include  the way he plays hurt.    When he is not beat up he still has good range.  He still drives for balls.  But when he is hurt it shows in his range.   Buck needs to rest him more.   And maybe now that the O's have Hays and Mullins he will.    As far as Jones throwing, you are seeing something that I am not.  Not saying you are wrong.  I just didn't see it.  I think he still has a strong accurate arm.

As far as the fielding metrics.  They have never liked Jones.   Yet his peers vote him as one of the best fielder....when he is not injured.

I don't agree with much of this.    I don't think Jones is that fast anymore even when completely healthy.      And if he tends to get banged up more than most players, well that's just part of the package.   It doesn't do me any good to imagine some hypothetical world where Jones plays the entire season while 100% healthy, because that doesn't happen.    I'm not suggesting that getting a bit more rest wouldn't help him, but I don't think that's going to turn him from a -13.3 UZR fielder into an above average CF at age 32.

[wildcard]

11 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I don't agree with much of this.    I don't think Jones is that fast anymore even when completely healthy.      And if he tends to get banged up more than most players, well that's just part of the package.   It doesn't do me any good to imagine some hypothetical world where Jones plays the entire season while 100% healthy, because that doesn't happen.    I'm not suggesting that getting a bit more rest wouldn't help him, but I don't think that's going to turn him from a -13.3 UZR fielder into an above average CF at age 32.

He what I have to say about whether he can still go get it

USA vs. DR | Adam Jones DENIES Manny Machado | WBC HIGHLIGHT

 

1.3K views10 months ago

he's a real crowd pleaser.

[wildcard]

When Jones was injured who was he supposed to sit for?  Who was to play center.   Mancini and Smith who didn't have the range or Gentry and Rickard who can't hit?

[weams]

23 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Would have been easier to extend him before he sold a share of his future earnings.

 

 

[JourneyFan]

2 minutes ago, wildcard said:

When Jones was injured who was he supposed to sit for?  Who was to play center.   Mancini and Smith who didn't have the range or Gentry and Rickard who can't hit?

It's the manager's job to decide that.

[Babypowder]

3 minutes ago, wildcard said:

He what I have to say about whether he can still go get it

USA vs. DR | Adam Jones DENIES Manny Machado | WBC HIGHLIGHT

 

1.3K views10 months ago

he's a real crowd pleaser.

He had plenty of time to get under that ball. If you’re attempting to show his range isn’t diminished, this is a poor example. 

Statcast last year has him as the slowest regular center fielder in baseball by sprint speed, and the metrics say he lacks range. There are plenty of balls watching the games that I wonder why they either fall in or Jones has to make what looks like a difficult catch on. He’s lost range and he never had great range to begin with.

[Frobby]

28 minutes ago, Babypowder said:

He had plenty of time to get under that ball. If you’re attempting to show his range isn’t diminished, this is a poor example. 

I agree.    And I remember that when Statcast rated that catch, the catch probability was reasonably high, for that reason.   The presence of all the fans sticking their hands out made it look tougher than it was from the standpoint of getting to the ball and timing the jump (and he’s not at full extension, either).    

I’ve mentioned before, it’s pretty noticeable when Jones runs out slow grounders, or balls deep in the hole, that he doesn’t get down the line nearly as fast as he used to.

[clapdiddy]

37 minutes ago, weams said:

 

Really hoping the "other name" isn't Michael Saunders.

[Il BuonO]

37 minutes ago, Babypowder said:

He had plenty of time to get under that ball. If you’re attempting to show his range isn’t diminished, this is a poor example. 

Statcast last year has him as the slowest regular center fielder in baseball by sprint speed, and the metrics say he lacks range. There are plenty of balls watching the games that I wonder why they either fall in or Jones has to make what looks like a difficult catch on. 

Well, glad that you actually witnessed some because those defensive metrics are unreliable as you know. 

9 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I agree.    And I remember that when Statcast rated that catch, the catch probability was reasonably high, for that reason.   The presence of all the fans sticking their hands out made it look tougher than it was from the standpoint of getting to the ball and timing the jump (and he’s not at full extension, either).    

I’ve mentioned before, it’s pretty noticeable when Jones runs out slow grounders, or balls deep in the hole, that he doesn’t get down the line nearly as fast as he used to.

Jones had already started to implement different positioning. If you look from where he started you can see he’s playing deeper than he had the previous season.

[Luke-OH]

7 minutes ago, clapdiddy said:

Really hoping the "other name" isn't Michael Saunders.

Jon Jay seems noticeably missing from Shepard's list of names.

[clapdiddy]

21 minutes ago, Luke-OH said:

Jon Jay seems noticeably missing from Shepard's list of names.

I'd be totally on board with Jon Jay.

[Ruzious]

21 hours ago, Il BuonO said:

Well, I don’t know what you read, but here’s a couple blurbs....

“Hays displays an excellent array of power, hitting ability, speed, defensive ability and a solid throwing arm.”

-Pleskoff

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fanragsports.com/pleskoff-scouting-report-austin-hays/amp/

 

55	Clocked 4.25; Above-average runner, hustles; aggressiveness causes some bonehead mistakes.
Glove	50	Above-average speed leads to quality range, athletic enough to hold up in all three outfield spots, aggressive nature may fit better in right field, average glove skills.
Arm	60	Plus arm strength, ball has carry from center field, can make most any throw when set, maintains velo on the move.

http://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/prospects/eyewitness_bat.php?reportid=456

So, if his glove is average and his arm is above how is he not a better option than Jones?

 

What I said was "If they're going to move Jones, it should be for a good CFer.  From everything I've read and seen, I don't think Hays qualifies."  Even from your quote, it says about Hays, "aggressive nature may fit better in right field, average glove skills".  So using my criteria, Hays should be in RF.  And I've read elsewhere that Hays has only average speed.  He sounds like a RFer - not a CFer.  And as a rookie,  he's also likely going to make rookie type mistakes.  I don't think making a rookie RFer the starting CFer is a great idea.  Now, if Mullins makes the team and looks like he can hit ML pitching, yes - play Mullins in CF and move Jones to a corner.     

Edit - it was mentioned in another thread that Keith Law has Hays as only a 45 for speed.