Why is Machado Playing SS This Season?

[Ohfan67]

2 hours ago, Frobby said:

Oh, I think he might have.   It’s difficult to tell because the throw was so far off line.   

No way. Pause at the 12 second mark.

https://www.mlb.com/gameday/orioles-vs-angels/2018/05/01/529842#game_state=final,lock_state=final,game_tab=videos,game=529842

 

p.s. I don't think I can (or know) how to link to the little league home run video. Pause that one at the 12 second mark and you can see the runner beat the ball back to the bag, even accounting for the angle of the throw. 

p.p.s. We really need Kramer, Constanza, and Jerry for this analysis. 

[Ohfan67]

By the way, I found the throw frustrating, but I still love Manny as a player and he seems fine as a teammate and person. I put the throw into the "trying too much" category, but find it extra frustrating because the throw had a very small chance for success and a relatively high chance of going wrong. It would have been an Alomar or Jeter highlight reel play (And yes, I know Jeter sucks and all, but he made a few incredibly heads up plays during his career.  I'm thinking of Alomar's throws to third to pick off runners after fielding a ground ball to second). 

[VaBird1]

7 hours ago, Aristotelian said:

I thought he had a good chance to get him. Awful throw and somehow nobody backing up. I think Davis was on 2B?

Infielders are taught as teens not to make that throw because the chance of  making the play is low and the potential for what happened last night is high.  Davis did what he should have in that defense and the right fielder is the back up.

To me it looks like Machado is doing some of these Ill advised things to try and make something happen on a team that is awful right now.  

[sportsfan8703]

54 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

That's the thing, I've never heard anyone say Manny ISN'T a leader.  I don't hear teammates making anonymous quotes to the press.  I don't hear anyone saying he's a clubhouse cancer.

That might come out after he leaves but I don't hear anyone saying he's NOT a leader.

He’s been going to the mound a lot more this year and talking with pitchers. We really should have brought Hardy in on a milb deal in ST to be that stabalizing voice. The problem with that is that he’d be our starting SS right now. Haha

[The Goob]

Very interesting article about Manny and his struggles as a shortstop.

https://www.theringer.com/mlb/2018/5/17/17363592/manny-machado-triple-crown-hunt-shortstop-struggles

This confirms what many of us are seeing that Machado has gone from an other worldly third baseman and one of the best defneders in baseball to a well below average shortstop.

Given how much the game is run by metrics now you have to wonder if we can only realistically trade Manny to a team that has a hole at third not short.

[Can_of_corn]

7 minutes ago, The Goob said:

Very interesting article about Manny and his struggles as a shortstop.

https://www.theringer.com/mlb/2018/5/17/17363592/manny-machado-triple-crown-hunt-shortstop-struggles

This confirms what many of us are seeing that Machado has gone from an other worldly third baseman and one of the best defneders in baseball to a well below average shortstop.

Given how much the game is run by metrics now you have to wonder if we can only realistically trade Manny to a team that has a hole at third not short.

His bat makes up for the glove at short.

 

[The Goob]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

His bat makes up for the glove at short.

 

Agreed but I think the point is that his defensive value is so low at short that it hurts his overall value and that he would have substantially higher overall value at third.  I think every smart GM in baseball knows this and they may only consider him as a third baseman when considering him as a rental.  

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, The Goob said:

Agreed but I think the point is that his defensive value is so low at short that it hurts his overall value and that he would have substantially higher overall value at third.  I think every smart GM in baseball knows this and they may only consider him as a third baseman when considering him as a rental.  

Sure, I was looking at the WAR leaders a couple of days ago and it was shocking how low Machado was considering he was a short stop putting up big numbers with the bat.

[wildbillhiccup]

5 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

His bat makes up for the glove at short.

 

...I think there's a 50 / 50 chance the team he signs with plays him at SS and not 3b. How I see it playing out is they play him at SS in season 1 (just to sign him) then politely tell him he needs to move to 3b in season 2. 

[Roll Tide]

5 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

His bat makes up for the glove at short.

 

Good point....however it will be the new teams manager that decided what position he plays.

im not sure why Buck agreed to move him to SS. It was a poor tactical move imo. 

Other than trying to resign him in free agency I can't see how the move made any sense at all.

The team defense is atrocious and this is just one contributing factor.

 

[Moose Milligan]

Good article.  He can get better at SS but he's not going to be the difference-maker he was at SS like he was at 3B.  

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Roll Tide said:

Good point....however it will be the new teams manager that decided what position he plays.

im not sure why Buck agreed to move him to SS. It was a poor tactical move imo. 

Other than trying to resign him in free agency I can't see how the move made any sense at all.

The team defense is atrocious and this is just one contributing factor.

 

I'm sticking to the theory I had in ST.

1. Rewarding Manny for being a good troop and agreeing to play third previously.
2. Buck's tendency to give leeway to his vets
3. Buck not being happy with Beckham's error rate.

[Natty]

Who's idea was it to play Manny at ss? Bucks or Manny's? 

[Camden_yardbird]

10 minutes ago, The Goob said:

Agreed but I think the point is that his defensive value is so low at short that it hurts his overall value and that he would have substantially higher overall value at third.  I think every smart GM in baseball knows this and they may only consider him as a third baseman when considering him as a rental.  

Doubtful.  If he is capable at SS someone will shoehorn him in there.  It doesn't appreciably hurt his trade value.  It's not like some is going to be like "I would give you my #4 prospect but I can't play him at short so I will only give you my #7 prospect."

[baltfan]

Good article.  I don't know that I believe the metrics though.  He doesn't look like the worst shortstop in baseball out there to the eye.  I am not seeing much difference between him and Hardy except Hardy was a little more solid and Manny makes plays to his right that Hardy can't make.  Also, there have been some issues with Machado being slow on the double play.

I know that you can't just use the eye test, but defense stats are notoriously inaccurate in a small sample size.  

Still would prefer him at 3rd, but think trade value better at SS.

Finally, he may be hitting better because he isn't getting beat up at 3rd.  Cal said 3rd was much harder on his body.