Baltimore Sun: Angelos Story

[Moose Milligan]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

- The Orioles are still run by Peter Angelos even if his sons are taking more responsibility and that ownership is still making final baseball decisions.
- Lou was in charge of the baseball operations budgeting this off season and perhaps longer, including international scouting. So the fact that they didn't spend much at all in international budgeting would suggest he won't change the poor policy of not spending internationally much in the future.
 

My only hope here is that once the old man is gone, Lou can be more flexible and operate in international scouting.  

FML.  For years I've been thinking that the light at the end of the tunnel of me being an Orioles fan is that I'm waaaay younger than Peter Angelos.  I can outlast him.  But if he's just going to turn this over to his kids and they're going to run it the same...ugh.  Just ugh.  

[Camden_yardbird]

Seems like a cluster, which is too bad because I think John has some real ideas.  Unrealistically the best outcome would be the sale of the team.  Realistically a solution is going be hard to gind.  Any potential GMs are you g to want significant autonomy without a guy with no accountability like Anderson running around behind his/ her back.

They have to make Anderson President and establish accountable goals.  Realistically they need to fire Duquette and Buck now.  These trades coming up are decade impacting trades, there need to be a lot of them and they need to help the Orioles long term.  This is the 1999 draft and it needs to be executed correctly and not with vetoes and not with multiple inputs.  If Duquette is the guy to make the trades then he should be extended so that he has a stake in their outcome.  Then they would need to hire a real GM in the next few weeks which is next to impossible or else promote from within to keep continuity.  And give them autonomy, which won't happen.

None of this will happen.  Not with the draft in the next two weeks.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

Jerry Coleman flat out said today that Brady Anderson was above Duquette on the org chart and answered only to ownership.  WTF is going on with this team and no wonder Duquette wanted to take the Blue Jays job.

[gtman55]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

Excellent article by Ed and Peter that verified a lot of what was in my piece but also clarified Lou's role in baseball operations. That was something I wasn't clear about.

What this tells us though is several things:

- The Orioles are still run by Peter Angelos even if his sons are taking more responsibility and that ownership is still making final baseball decisions.
- Ownership veteoed deals for Britton and Machado that baseball people liked and thought would help rebuild the team.
- Lou was in charge of the baseball operations budgeting this off season and perhaps longer, including international scouting. So the fact that they didn't spend much at all in international budgeting would suggest he won't change the poor policy of not spending internationally much in the future.
- Duquette acts as the GM, but only to bring deals to ownership who then makes final decisions (2hich could include Brady with influence)
- Like in my piece, Brady wants to be President but doesn't want to do the dirty work of being a GM. He likes to do what he wants when he wants.
 

Basically, all things point to this team continually being run like it's been run. No clear hierarchy, multiple people having influences, and the Angelos' running things as they always have.

In other words, more of the same.

So Tony, basically you're saying the Orioles are doomed. Even when Peter Angelos is gone his sons will continue his ill fated style of mismanagement and overriding his baseball people.  And Brady being Brady. Wow this is gloomy.

[Moose Milligan]

2 minutes ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

Jerry Coleman flat out said today that Brady Anderson was above Duquette on the org chart and answered only to ownership.  WTF is going on with this team and no wonder Duquette wanted to take the Blue Jays job.

Haha, yeah, can't really blame him for the Toronto thing now.  I'd wanna be out, too.

[24fps]

Brady wants to have it both ways.  Nothing in the article indicates that John and Lou Angelos are anything other than completly OK with that arrangement.  I think the next GM search will make the last one look benign, make the Orioles a media laughingstock once again and finally pave the way for Brady to become the GM by default.  Crazy.

[TouchemAll]

Pretty much verified what Tony has been saying and his article.

 

[TouchemAll]

I think at this point unless somebody goes crazy at the trade deadline we better plan on seeing Machado all year and walking for a pick.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

6 minutes ago, 24fps said:

Brady wants to have it both ways.  Nothing in the article indicates that John and Lou Angelos are anything other than completly OK with that arrangement.  I think the next GM search will make the last one look benign, make the Orioles a media laughingstock once again and finally pave the way for Brady to become the GM by default.  Crazy.

I don't see any other path. Front Office next year is going to be Brady and/or Buck.  And seeing players Mike Wright get chance after chance to fail.  

[davearm]

If you're looking for a ray of hope, maybe this will help:

https://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/news/2018/01/19/blackhawks-owner-rocky-wirtz-has-made-right-moves.html

[Frobby]

That’s an excellent article, and in my opinion it’s not merely redundant of things previously reported by Tony, Ken Rosenthal and others.    There’s a lot of insight into how Lou and John interact, and a bit more insight into how Brady sees his role developing.   I thought it was interesting that Brady was so open about his role and ambitions, and his own views regarding the roles played by the various members of the Angelos family.   

I think my big takeaway, not that it’s a surprise, is that no GM here is ever going to have the autonomy that most GM’s have elsewhere.    Ownership is always going to be heavily involved in significant free agent signings and trades.    Brady is almost certainly going to be hanging around doing what he does.    In that scenario, I honestly don’t know if they can do better than the Duquette/Showalter duo.  I’m not always thrilled with Dan, but I’m not sure anyone better would take the job under these circumstances.  And if he is fired or chooses to leave, it may be that kicking Buck upstairs or giving him dual responsibility may be the best available option.    I’m not happy about that, but it may be the reality.  

[Deadwood Fan]

Thom Loverro reported a few years ago that MLB wont allow the Angelos son to own the team. 

[pastorfan]

5 hours ago, Roll Tide said:

He's off to a nice start for the Pirates .815 OPS

We don't need him, our Third Basemen have put up big numbers!

[wildcard]

I don't think that John and Lou Angelos being involve is necessarily a bad thing.  If the evidence so far is that they signed Cobb, Cashner and Tillman, I think that is a good thing.  They addressed one the O's biggest weaknesses being the starting pitching.  Cobb seems to be getting better as he gets passed his spring training during the season period.   Cashner is about what a 4th starter would be expected to be.  He could have 4-3 record if he had some help from the pen, the O's defense and the offense.    Tillman was only given a 3m contract for a reason.   He only lasted 7 starts. The right action was taken to get him out of the rotation as soon as the O's felt their farm system produced a starter who is ready for a trial in the rotation.

I can't fault any of that.

The O's problems have been 1) an unreasonable hard April schedule imposed by MLB, 2) injuries, and 3)  non performance by many O's players in comparison to what could reasonably have been expected.   Really only Manny and Gausman have done what was expected of them to this point.

Though Brady might want to the O's President of Baseball Operations, that has not happen so far.   He is really an advisor to ownership.  He does have some baseball background for that job.   

To me what Buck decides to do and what ownership allows him to do going forward  is a big key to the O's future success.    It looks like no one will have the traditional GM powers that are seen in other organizations.  But Dan probably never had those powers anyway and the team won more games than any other AL team from 2012-2016.   

I don't know were this end up but I am not sure that John, Lou, Brady and Buck are not a good combination to make the changes in the players  that are needed to return to contention.

[atomic]

1 hour ago, 24fps said:

Brady wants to have it both ways.  Nothing in the article indicates that John and Lou Angelos are anything other than completly OK with that arrangement.  I think the next GM search will make the last one look benign, make the Orioles a media laughingstock once again and finally pave the way for Brady to become the GM by default.  Crazy.

Maybe they can make Brady and Buck co-GMs.  Have Buck be manager/gm and Brady be player/GM.  He could probably field as well as Mancini or Trumbo and hit as well as Davis.