Are the O's Tanking?

[wildcard]

Or should they be?

The O's didn't start the season to tank.  But now.  Where they are.  Why should the White Sox get the first pick?

Fans are upset the O's lost a winable game last night.   Trumbo could not catch a fly ball. But Trumbo went 4 for 4. He raised his average to .309.   His OPS is 786 now.   He has a 1.069 OPS this year when he plays the field and a 695 OPS when he DH.   Last year he had a 876 OPS when he played RF and a 635 OPS when DHing.     If he continues this trend he is untradable as a DH.  But someone may want he for his bat if he plays  the field.   What is more important at this point? Winning games or making Trumbo tradable?

There are players that will be FA after season - Manny, Jones, Brach, Britton, Valencia, and Alvarez that the team should maximize their trade value by playing them whenever it will help improve their numbers.   Additionally O'Day and Trumbo are aging players that the same should be done to max out their trade value.

I would only promote young players when the are ready.  Playing them before that is not helpful IMO.   All this is JMO.

 

[Moose Milligan]

I agree on promoting young players when they are ready, it makes no sense to promote Hays right now.

They should be tanking.  But the sad thing here is that I don't think they are, I think they are playing to their maximum level of competency.  I'm annoyed when they lose any winnable game, last night they just pissed all over themselves.  

We've been down this path enough, I don't think Trumbo has much trade value.  I don't think any team out there parts with one of their top 10 prospects.  In other words, I don't see us getting a difference maker that helps in the rebuild for us if we trade him.  

But even if we tried to build value in Trumbo, no team out there is going to be duped into thinking he's a plus defender.  

Valencia and Alvarez have practically no trade value.  The Orioles, once again, pissed all over themselves when it came to trading players and getting a good return.  

[Spy Fox]

I think several of the players mentioned will have pretty negligible trade value regardless of performance. If other teams saw Trumbo's 4/4 they saw his missed catch, too.

Valencia and Alvarez, similar story-- these guys just aren't worth a lot in a trade because it's so easy to find a power guy with no position. Chris Carter, a HR king only two years ago, was unemployed until yesterday. The Nats signed Mark Reynolds off the scrap heap and, oh, he's played seven games and already has as many HRs as Chris Davis.

So how much can that type of player raise his trade value with a couple good months? 

[esmd]

5 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I agree on promoting young players when they are ready, it makes no sense to promote Hays right now.

They should be tanking.  But the sad thing here is that I don't think they are, I think they are playing to their maximum level of competency.  I'm annoyed when they lose any winnable game, last night they just pissed all over themselves.  

We've been down this path enough, I don't think Trumbo has much trade value.  I don't think any team out there parts with one of their top 10 prospects.  In other words, I don't see us getting a difference maker that helps in the rebuild for us if we trade him.  

But even if we tried to build value in Trumbo, no team out there is going to be duped into thinking he's a plus defender.  

Valencia and Alvarez have practically no trade value.  The Orioles, once again, pissed all over themselves when it came to trading players and getting a good return.  

Who cares?  If I could find a team willing to take him and his salary next year, freeing up DH for Mancini (or someone else if Mancini is playing 1st with Davis riding the pine), then by all means, I'd take a B or even C level prospect.

[joelala]

No, I don't think we are intentionally tanking, but if we keep playing this bad, there will be no difference record-wise.  Which is actually pretty amazing; Its like watching a train-wreck.

And yea no reason to bring up the young guys until we trade all our veterans and re-stock our farm system.  Oh wait...

[joelala]

4 minutes ago, Spy Fox said:

I think several of the players mentioned will have pretty negligible trade value regardless of performance. If other teams saw Trumbo's 4/4 they saw his missed catch, too.

Valencia and Alvarez, similar story-- these guys just aren't worth a lot in a trade because it's so easy to find a power guy with no position. Chris Carter, a HR king only two years ago, was unemployed until yesterday. The Nats signed Mark Reynolds off the scrap heap and, oh, he's played seven games and already has as many HRs as Chris Davis.

So how much can that type of player raise his trade value with a couple good months? 

Yup, all of this.  These guys are pretty worthless unfortunately.  I'm actually shocked we've never had Chris Carter on our team. 

[eddie83]

You trade Trumbo to free his spot and maybe save a small amount of money, not to worry about the return you get. 

I would keep playing the vets until the kids are ready and/or trades are made.  

[Camden_yardbird]

Getting rid of Trumbo in a rebuild isn't about the return in the trade, it's about freeing up the spot.

I think it would take an injury, but if the return is negligible and he keeps producing he is definitely tradeable.  That said trading Trumbo is not in the top 3 of priority trades this season, and I don't really trust the Orioles to really pull off 4 plus significant trades.  Not with the current management structure.  This is how I see it going down.

Brady:  "Hey Dan, I traded Trumbo for a bag of peanuts to an NL team."

Dan:  "Oh damn, I just traded him for a bag of cashews to this AL team."

Brady: "I like peanuts."

Dan: "Screw that I like cashews."

Peter: "Don't worry, I vetoed both trades.  I prefer Olives.  And nuts break too easily."

[clapdiddy]

The O's are definitely not tanking.   

[Three Run Homer]

Tanking would mean trading assets that have value beyond this season, such as Jonathan Schoop, Kevin Gausman, Alex Cobb, Andrew Cashner, Mychal Givens, Richard Bleier, maybe even Trey Mancini.    

[Moose Milligan]

33 minutes ago, esmd said:

Who cares?  If I could find a team willing to take him and his salary next year, freeing up DH for Mancini (or someone else if Mancini is playing 1st with Davis riding the pine), then by all means, I'd take a B or even C level prospect.

I would, too.  But that's not the point. 

The point is that Trumbo never had any trade value to begin with.  Even with his big homer season, he was somewhere between like a 2 or 3 win player.  We should have traded Manny, Britton and probably Jones a year or two years ago and gotten massive hauls for those guys.

Now we're sitting here looking at lesser packages for Manny, no packages for Britton and talking about a B or C level prospect for Trumbo.  And still having to eat probably most of Trumbo's salary to boot.

[mdbdotcom]

They played this poorly last September, when they thought they were contending. They have no idea what they are doing.

[Ripken]

No, sadly they are trying to win.  They just assembled a junk roster and have played even below that level.

I wanted a rebuild long ago.  I'll take a fire sale now.  This mess has gone on long enough.

[wildcard]

39 minutes ago, Three Run Homer said:

Tanking would mean trading assets that have value beyond this season, such as Jonathan Schoop, Kevin Gausman, Alex Cobb, Andrew Cashner, Mychal Givens, Richard Bleier, maybe even Trey Mancini.    

To me tanking simply means losing to get a better draft position.   

[Can_of_corn]

8 minutes ago, wildcard said:

To me tanking simply means losing to get a better draft position.   

I have to add intent to my definition.