DD is not under contract next year and

[Tx Oriole]

12 hours ago, atomic said:

His contract is up.  I don’t know whether DD will be here or not, but the club is going in the direction of younger Management. I can tell you that.

 

DD is not under contract next year and I think it is time for the club to rebuild with a younger GM.  We are going a new direction so get rid of the guys who have had the game pass them by.  Get a young GM from an Ivy League school who knows stats and get rid of Buck and DD.  

Really DD screwed up on letting Markakis go.  Time to let him go.  

So him trading Manny and Britton getting prospects in return and getting into the international market is not good enough for you? As for Markakis I remember many fans on this board wanting Kakes gone. Sorry to disagree with you but I hope DD signs a new contract. As for Buck.  Don't care if they fire him.

[MCO'sFan]

12 hours ago, atomic said:

His contract is up.  I don’t know whether DD will be here or not, but the club is going in the direction of younger Management. I can tell you that.

 

DD is not under contract next year and I think it is time for the club to rebuild with a younger GM.  We are going a new direction so get rid of the guys who have had the game pass them by.  Get a young GM from an Ivy League school who knows stats and get rid of Buck and DD.  

Really DD screwed up on letting Markakis go.  Time to let him go.  

I'm all for an "old" guy from a "Little Ivy" school who has a vast amount of experience is a two time "Executive of the Year." Not all young GM's have worked out. I like as a whole the job DD has done, given the restrictions he's had. We have certainly had much worse of the years! The devil you know.... kind of thing.

[wildbillhiccup]

1 hour ago, Babypowder said:

WAR doesn't overrate him. He used oWAR, which is a metric that should almost never be used because the context is always incorrect, for a reason. Actual WAR didn't support the narrative until this year. No doubt Nick has been very good this year, but he was below average each of the first 3 seasons in Atlanta. I'll never understand the constant hand-wringing over that decision.

I missed the "o". Good catch and agree 100%. The only completely egregious moves that have occurred on Dan's watch are: 

1) The Davis signing

2) The Arrieta trade

...and I'm not convinced that Duquette was the man behind the Davis signing. 

[Chromehill]

44 minutes ago, clapdiddy said:

This has been something I've been thinking as well.   If it appears the new ownership is going to be more "hands-off" and allow DD (assuming he is back) to run the club the way he sees fit, it would be an ideal time to get a young person working with him and "learning the ropes".   

As long as Pete is breathing, I would not trust any handshake agreement about the level of your control running the baseball side of the Orioles. If you are a good baseball person, you will have other opportunities, even if it takes a few years.

[MCO'sFan]

12 hours ago, atomic said:

No underrates Markakis. And that isn't the point of this.  DD tried to leave while under contract.  Yet Adam wants to stay.  DD is old as dirt and he is saying Jones is too old to play.  The trend in the league is to get young GM's out of Ivy league schools.  We should join the modern era.  Leave old school DD behind.  Just like the Red Sox did over 15 years ago and won a bunch of World Series.  

Also Jones most comparable player up to his current age is Andre Dawson who played until he was 41.  And Adam's offensive numbers this year are pretty comparable to his career averages.  

This fixation on DD's age "Old as dirt" is disgusting! I am surprised a mod hasn't chimed in.

[tntoriole]

54 minutes ago, Babypowder said:

Sure, replacing a 1.5 win player shouldn't be hard but the Orioles made it hard. However, those are issues that should be evaluated separately.

Ok...seperately then..Dan did not resign Nick due to a one year difference in contract..arguably defensible at the time although that one year difference is now an All Star year....AND, sepaerately,  Dan abysmally failed in the 2014 offseason, mid 2015, 2016,  2017 and 2018 to find anywhere close to even a marginal right field.    And how nice it would be right now to be flipping Nick ( and Nelson Cruz) at this trading deadline..how much ultimately did that choice cost us  in the coming rebuild? 

Did Dan truly believe Travis Snider in 2014 was going to be an upgrade to the departing Nick Markakis?  If he did, his judgement then was not so good.  Did Dan have a replacement plan in the farm system waiting in a year or two ready for that right field slot before letting Nick walk over a single year difference in contract?    For a team that was poised after 2014 to win a World Series?   Where was the upgrade?   

it was not really Dan’s decision of not resigning of Nick over a single year difference in deal that was so indefensible, it was the complete absence of any reasonable plan to upgrade that slot after winning a division that was Dan’s failure, imho.  And  unfortunately that was because he seemingly was too preoccupied that winter with getting a new and better gig, imho. 

 

[MCO'sFan]

1 minute ago, tntoriole said:

Ok...seperately then..Dan did not resign Nick due to a one year difference in contract..arguably defensible at the time although that one year difference is now an All Star year....AND, sepaerately,  Dan abysmally failed in the 2014 offseason, mid 2015, 2016,  2017 and 2018 to find anywhere close to even a marginal right field.    And how nice it would be right now to be flipping Nick ( and Nelson Cruz) at this trading deadline..how much ultimately did that choice cost us  in the coming rebuild? 

Did Dan truly believe Travis Snider in 2014 was going to be an upgrade to the departing Nick Markakis?  If he did, his judgement then was not so good.  Did Dan have a replacement plan in the farm system waiting in a year or two ready for that right field slot before letting Nick walk over a single year difference in contract?    For a team that was poised after 2014 to win a World Series?   Where was the upgrade?   

it was not really Dan’s decision of not resigning of Nick over a single year difference in deal that was so indefensible, it was the complete absence of any reasonable plan to upgrade that slot after winning a division that was Dan’s failure, imho.  And  unfortunately that was because he seemingly was too preoccupied that winter with getting a new and better gig, imho. 

 

Do "we" even know if this was Dan's decision. It was based on the medicals IIRC and that at least suggests that it was the medical staff and PA that limited the deal to three years. I don't recall if anything definitive came put about who actually made that decision.

[Tx Oriole]

7 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

I missed the "o". Good catch and agree 100%. The only completely egregious moves that have occurred on Dan's watch are: 

1) The Davis signing

2) The Arrieta trade

...and I'm not convinced that Duquette was the man behind the Davis signing. 

But I've read that it was Peter that wanted Davis back. It was he that called the shots. As for Arrieta how many chances should a player get? He had many chances. I guess they figured he couldn't cut it in Baltimore. That's all water under the bridge now anyway. I believe with DD and John & Lou as owners the O's can be successful again. 

[tntoriole]

1 minute ago, MCO'sFan said:

Do "we" even know if this was Dan's decision. It was based on the medicals IIRC and that at least suggests that it was the medical staff and PA that limited the deal to three years. I don't recall if anything definitive came put about who actually made that decision.

We may never know exactly but I believe, given what I have seen about Dan’s philosophy in other organizations regarding aging players and contract extensions (see Roger Clemens), that Dan either recommended or fully supported the 3 year offer.   I also believe (on relatively little evidence) that Angelos did  favor Nick, in part, related to their Greek American ties and his performance as an Oriole

But tnat still does not get me past Dan’s fail of upgrading right field on that division   winning team.  I will never, ever forgive this management for that offseason failure to upgrade that division winning team. 

[MCO'sFan]

8 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

We may never know exactly but I believe, given what I have seen about Dan’s philosophy in other organizations regarding aging players and contract extensions (see Roger Clemens), that Dan either recommended or fully supported the 3 year offer.   I also believe (on relatively little evidence) that Angelos did  favor Nick, in part, related to their Greek American ties and his performance as an Oriole

But tnat still does not get me past Dan’s fail of upgrading right field on that division   winning team.  I will never, ever forgive this management for that offseason failure to upgrade that division winning team. 

You could be right about the kakes situation. Based on my experience and given the fact that they had a four year agreement in principle (IIRC) and it got shortened to 3 years based on the neck needing surgery, that screams PA to me. But, as I said, you certainly could be correct. I agree that they did a lot of "hoping" for the 2015 season and less "planning."

[wildbillhiccup]

16 minutes ago, Tx Oriole said:

But I've read that it was Peter that wanted Davis back. It was he that called the shots. As for Arrieta how many chances should a player get? He had many chances. I guess they figured he couldn't cut it in Baltimore. That's all water under the bridge now anyway. I believe with DD and John & Lou as owners the O's can be successful again. 

I'm on your side. Given the rumored dysfunction of ownership and the front office I think we're really grasping at straws to vilify Duquette. I'm all for giving him a second chance. Everything he's done in the last month has been refreshingly positive. 

[atomic]

46 minutes ago, MCO'sFan said:

This fixation on DD's age "Old as dirt" is disgusting! I am surprised a mod hasn't chimed in.

I took DD quote on Adam Jones and just switched the name out.   Are you guys really thinking that I want DD removed because of his age?  If you have a problem complain to DD. 

[atomic]

I am not sure why when I change a DD quote and replace Adam Jones name with DD everyone is thinking that is a serious post about his age.  DD is the one has ageism not me.  I was just showing how disrespectful the post was by DD yet everyone is focusing on things unrelated to the point of the  post.  They find fault with my post but not what DD was saying.  

[Babypowder]

1 hour ago, tntoriole said:

Ok...seperately then..Dan did not resign Nick due to a one year difference in contract..arguably defensible at the time although that one year difference is now an All Star year....AND, sepaerately,  Dan abysmally failed in the 2014 offseason, mid 2015, 2016,  2017 and 2018 to find anywhere close to even a marginal right field.    And how nice it would be right now to be flipping Nick ( and Nelson Cruz) at this trading deadline..how much ultimately did that choice cost us  in the coming rebuild? 

Did Dan truly believe Travis Snider in 2014 was going to be an upgrade to the departing Nick Markakis?  If he did, his judgement then was not so good.  Did Dan have a replacement plan in the farm system waiting in a year or two ready for that right field slot before letting Nick walk over a single year difference in contract?    For a team that was poised after 2014 to win a World Series?   Where was the upgrade?   

it was not really Dan’s decision of not resigning of Nick over a single year difference in deal that was so indefensible, it was the complete absence of any reasonable plan to upgrade that slot after winning a division that was Dan’s failure, imho.  And  unfortunately that was because he seemingly was too preoccupied that winter with getting a new and better gig, imho. 

 

No argument.

[Babypowder]

13 hours ago, atomic said:

No underrates Markakis. And that isn't the point of this.  DD tried to leave while under contract.  Yet Adam wants to stay.  DD is old as dirt and he is saying Jones is too old to play.  The trend in the league is to get young GM's out of Ivy league schools.  We should join the modern era.  Leave old school DD behind.  Just like the Red Sox did over 15 years ago and won a bunch of World Series.  

Also Jones most comparable player up to his current age is Andre Dawson who played until he was 41.  And Adam's offensive numbers this year are pretty comparable to his career averages.  

Jones is a league average hitter this year at 101 wRC+. He's also the slowest center fielder in baseball. In fact, he's slower than the league wide average. Trey Mancini, a first baseman playing left field who's own lack of speed is a main factor in his own poor defense, is faster. At his peak he was a well above average hitter while playing averageish defense in center and he was very very good for a 4 year stretch. Early in his career when he was an average hitter, he was a plus defender and therefore had value. A league average hitter who is a poor defender doesn't provide much value.