Who will get a better contract this winter, Markakis or Jones?

[SurhoffRules]

7 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

You could just split the difference between bb-ref's and Fangraphs' valuations.  And make sure to look at Statcast to see if anything changes.

I'm somewhat embarrassed to admit that my preference towards quoting BB over FG is mostly because I find the color scheme and left anchored grids of BB far easier for my eyes to parse than the green/grey/white/black with the grid placed in the center part of the page.

I wish I could pretend it had anything to do with a deeply held opinion on the quality of their data.

[atomic]

15 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

You could just split the difference between bb-ref's and Fangraphs' valuations.  And make sure to look at Statcast to see if anything changes.

And I doubt that the Braves signed Markakis on the assumption that he'd provide right around +0.8 wins for $6M, and are disappointed by 0.1. They signed him because they thought he'd probably give them mostly full time play, hit .275 and not embarrass himself on defense, which is what he did until he got hurt.

I think Markakis was the perfect right fielder for Camden Yards.  Not much speed but took good routes and very strong arm.  Played the ball well off the walls. Anyway in 2021 games in right field he is 0 runs saved above average according to BRef.  

Anyway he is 8th all time for put outs for a right fielder and 8 all time for games played as a right fielder.  He is second among active players for assists as an outfielder and Adam Jones is 4th.

[DrungoHazewood]

16 hours ago, atomic said:

I think Markakis was the perfect right fielder for Camden Yards.  Not much speed but took good routes and very strong arm.  Played the ball well off the walls. Anyway in 2021 games in right field he is 0 runs saved above average according to BRef.  

Anyway he is 8th all time for put outs for a right fielder and 8 all time for games played as a right fielder.  He is second among active players for assists as an outfielder and Adam Jones is 4th.

He and Jones have had long careers.  I've enjoyed watching them.

[DrungoHazewood]

16 hours ago, atomic said:

Interesting thing is DH is -15 runs. Mancini is played about half a season in Right Field.  His defense is rated -15 runs per season.  So he loses 8 runs over if he was just a DH.  I think that is a major fault of using WAR to evaluate him.  

That's what he's actually worth (or something like that) in the context of the distribution of talent in MLB.  There are a lot of players, including some in AAA, who could hit reasonably well while having no defensive responsibility.  The Orioles happen to have players backed up at the end of the defensive spectrum and are left with playing Mancini somewhere that he's not particularly good.  If you were going to trade for him and play him at first or DH you'd have to account for that in your valuations.  But as a corner outfielder... he loses some value.

[atomic]

1 hour ago, DrungoHazewood said:

That's what he's actually worth (or something like that) in the context of the distribution of talent in MLB.  There are a lot of players, including some in AAA, who could hit reasonably well while having no defensive responsibility.  The Orioles happen to have players backed up at the end of the defensive spectrum and are left with playing Mancini somewhere that he's not particularly good.  If you were going to trade for him and play him at first or DH you'd have to account for that in your valuations.  But as a corner outfielder... he loses some value.

I am saying if you played Mancini at DH every game and he hit exactly the same his WAR would be significantly higher than it is.  So you can't just use WAR to compare him to Nunez and say who is the better player.  He is just playing out of position as he never played a game in the outfield in minor leagues. I am not sure why Hyde and Showalter have continued to play him in the outfield.  

[DrungoHazewood]

33 minutes ago, atomic said:

I am saying if you played Mancini at DH every game and he hit exactly the same his WAR would be significantly higher than it is.  So you can't just use WAR to compare him to Nunez and say who is the better player.  He is just playing out of position as he never played a game in the outfield in minor leagues. I am not sure why Hyde and Showalter have continued to play him in the outfield.  

It would be a little bit higher, maybe half a win.  You know exactly why they continue to play him in the outfield, it's not a mystery at all: the teams Mancini play(ed) on have a lot of 1B/DH types, and all of them would have been as bad as or worse in LF/RF than Mancini.

[Frobby]

On 9/6/2019 at 8:41 AM, weams said:

The defensive inputs in these metrics are flawed. Therefore they can't be used to reasonably assess values. 

Statcast has them both below average in outs above average, and that stat (per Sig) doesn’t have  the same problem regarding positioning that the other advanced metrics have.   Nick is -1 and Jones is -5.

[BRobinsonfan]

On 10/27/2018 at 2:39 PM, Papeete said:

Taking Nick is a true reason why Stat people don't know anything about the game. 

It's not who might get a hit, it's about who is more likely to tie the game with one swing of the bat and AJ hits more HRs than NIck.

Yeah?  Is that's what the stats say?  

[Can_of_corn]

Part 2.

 

[Frobby]

They in effect are paying him $6 mm, because they declined his option, triggering a $2 mm buyout.  

[atomic]

19 minutes ago, Frobby said:

They in effect are paying him $6 mm, because they declined his option, triggering a $2 mm buyout.  

His option was only $6 million. Seems strange thing to do. 

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, atomic said:

His option was only $6 million. Seems strange thing to do. 

I read that they wanted the $2 mm to go on this year’s payroll rather than next year’s.    Not sure why that matters to them if they’re not bumping up against the luxury tax threshold, but whatever.   

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I read that they wanted the $2 mm to go on this year’s payroll rather than next year’s.    Not sure why that matters to them if they’re not bumping up against the luxury tax threshold, but whatever.   

Frees up money for Cole and Rendon.

Big money one year deals.

[Il BuonO]

No way do I see Jones getting $6mil this year, or $4mil for that matter.

[sportsfan8703]

26 man roster only helps Markakis’ push to 3000.