A few nuggets....

[Lucky Jim]

I'm just not certain that all of these things (along with carrying 13 pitchers) MUST be DT's fault. Doesn't MacPhail make roster decisions?

And if the team tanks in Aug and Sep, I think it has more to do with the fact that teams tend to show their overall worth over 162 games. This is not a good, consistent, winning team, and I don't think anyone should be shocked if the O's finish with 20 games under .500.

It won't be the losing that matters, but how the team loses and how the team behaves while it loses.

If the team returns to our expected results, what's the best argument for keeping Trembley? Should he be a lock for another year if, in fact, the team ends up playing down to our expectations? And if so, why?

[The Wedge]

The Trembley thing = both sides

[Dr. FLK]

The Trembley thing = both sides

That thing makes me chuckle.

[LookitsPuck]

It won't be the losing that matters, but how the team loses and how the team behaves while it loses.

If the team returns to our expected results, what's the best argument for keeping Trembley? Should he be a lock for another year if, in fact, the team ends up playing down to our expectations? And if so, why?

Pretty much.

It's one thing for the team to stay in games for the first half of the season and play above their heads (i.e. their records in 1 run games and comeback games in the better half of the season) and give credit to Trembley for an overachieving team, and it's another for how the team does, especially when they're traditionally awful, during the second part of the season. Maybe the truth lies somewhere in between, who knows. He has not had a full season, and I can't think of any legitimate reason why he should be a lock for 2K9.

[Dipper9]

Dipper - you've got to take the opportunity cost into account.

What else could Bradford be traded for? What does having Hall at 3B or SS do long-term? Is he a long-term solution? What's the value of a stop-gap this year?

Well, to answer all of these questions, all I have to say is, I guess that's a main reason MacPhail has yet to pull a trigger on this proposed offer. If there is one thing we've learned, its that MacPhail WILL be deliberate and think everything through before making a trade.

BUT....here's my thing. If on August 1 Bradford is still here, I will be a tad bit ticked, IF this proposed deal was really offered.

[LookitsPuck]

I wouldn't mind us acquiring Hall + a prospect for Bradford. We could make Mora our utility guy. Hall smashes lefties, where Aubrey Huff is traditionally better against righties. Platoon them at 3B if need be. Give Scott the majority of playing time in LF, with the occassional rest going to Payton against lefties (but not ALWAYS just for the sake of it). Payton is a bench player, and so is Mora.

*EDIT

Something like this:

Aubrey Huff 3B, DH

Bill Hall 3B

Luke Scott LF, DH

Payton LF, CF (spelling Scott and Jones at times)

Mora Utility (although he's not much use save for 3B)

Kevin Millar 1B, DH

[furryburres]

Getting a B- prospect for Bradford is 1000 times better than getting Hall for him. No question.

He hasn't got a high on-base percentage, but he's got a .197 ISO this season.

And seriously, what shortstop prospects could we get for Bradford? He gives us a cheap 5 year solution, which gives us time to develop someone like maybe Garabez Rosa or a drafted prospect.

[Dipper9]

I wouldn't mind us acquiring Hall + a prospect for Bradford. We could make Mora our utility guy. Hall smashes lefties, where Aubrey Huff is traditionally better against righties. Platoon them at 3B if need be. Give Scott the majority of playing time in LF, with the occassional rest going to Payton against lefties (but not ALWAYS just for the sake of it). Payton is a bench player, and so is Mora.

Hall/Huff at third and Scott 90% in LF with Mora and Payton on the bench is much better than keeping Bradford on this team. Its not like he hasn't had his flaws this year as well.

[Tony-OH]

Spot on. Trembley has made a ton of questionable decisions with the way he's managed the roster.

Having Fahey and Hernandez on the team at one time was ridiculous. His treatment of Aquino and Moore was poor. And the man kept writing Millar's name in the #4 spot when it was clear after 2-3 weeks that he couldn't perform there. And Luke Scott should never sit against a RHP unless he truly needs a break.

If this team goes into the tank like every August and September then you will have to question if Trembley is really the best choice.

The one thing I will give you is the consistency of your opinion. Tou probably thought the Orioles were contenders this year and it's Trembley's fault a team that was supposed to be historically bad has actually been in most games this year.

In case you didn't notice between your rants, even in games in which the Orioles lose they are always a play or two away from winning despite the fact if you go talent by talent with the other team the orioles are not eve close.

Every time I've been in the lockeroom I've seen most of the team eating at the table in the middle talking with each other. In year's past maybe one or two would be there with everyone else scattered or have their backs to each other. This team has stuck together and played above their heads for most of the year, and Trembley deserves a huge amount of credit for that.

I keep hearing the few of you talk about his bullpen mismanagement, but his closer was in the All-Star game and he's the one who saw that Johnson deserved to be a much bigger role quickly and moved him into the main setup guy from mop up guy.

He's adjusted roles by effectiveness or thereof for the most part and it's hard to blame him for Walker's lack of effectiveness and then injury. It's not his fault he has three starters that may give him five innings so of course his bullpen is going to be overwork. However, he's done a good job of getting guys like Cormier into the right situations and has used F Cabrera well before throwing him into the fire.

I just don't get or know what you Trembley bashers are expecting from him? The team plays hard every night, they've been competitive all year despite having a lack of talent, and he's adjusted lineups and the bullpen due to effectiveness or lack thereof.

I saw one poster blame him for not playing Luke Scott everyday, yet he was doing that when Scott was hit. Scott is extremely streaky and I've seen Trembley adjust his playing time accordingly.

Trembley is the first manager we've had here since Davey Johnson that I have full confidence that he's thinking ahead in games. He doesn't get caught with the wrong guy in the wrong situation unless he's stuck by the lack of talent on his roster.

[Guest rochester]

Yikes.. BB sure gets em flyin' eh?

Anyway, I am a big fan of DT but have no problem that he has not been signed through 2009, etc. I really want to see what happens between now and the end of the year - if we completely tank....he will be in trouble.

What I want is for the team not to tank and DT's employment not be an issue. I want continuity on the bench - a revolving (manager's) door is as bad as having the bad talent they have been provided...

I think DT is the right manager for rebuilding. The "handling" of the BP (overused? - how do you NOT overuse the BP with the SPs we have), fundamental errors (we have a couple of serious boneheads here) and other complaints do not have merit until he has the talent to at least use some strategy..

[MurphDogg]

Hall is signed for 2-3 more years at around 4-5 million a year if I am remembering correctly...

I know this is from the first page but I am surprised nobody corrected it... According to Cot's, Hall's contract is 6.8 million next year, 8.4 million in 2010 and a 9.25 million dollar option with a 500k buyout in 2011. Not exactly a bargain for a league average third baseman, and he is only league average if you factor in his two good years, not his last two seasons which have been rather pedestrian. That said, he is serviceable and despite what previous posters have said you can be a playoff team with Hall type players in your lineup, just not too many of them. Also, I would be surprised if Mora had a better season next year at age 37 than Hall at age 29, of course I can't see how they can get rid of Mora's contract and I don't know if he would embrace the super-utility role while making 9 million in 2009.

[Mark Carver]

Remember Trembley and the second half of 2007. If that happens again I don't want him back...

The team went through 11 starters the 2nd half of 2007, some that shouldn't have been up to begin with, is that Trembley's fault too...

Bedard

Guthrie

Cabrera

Burres

Traschsel

Olson

Birkins

Liz

Zambrano

Leicester

Santos

[EddeeEddee]

I wouldn't mind us acquiring Hall + a prospect for Bradford. We could make Mora our utility guy. Hall smashes lefties, where Aubrey Huff is traditionally better against righties. Platoon them at 3B if need be. Give Scott the majority of playing time in LF, with the occassional rest going to Payton against lefties (but not ALWAYS just for the sake of it). Payton is a bench player, and so is Mora.

That sounds fine, but this is not a long term move. Why trade Bradford at all if it is just spinning wheels for the short term? We have Bradford for another year. We can trade him in the offseason or next season. In the meantime, we could use a reliever like Bradford who is throwing well for the rest of this season, much more than we could use Bill Hall. We don't have many healthy pitchers throwing well at the moment.

Or we could propose to the Brewers a trade of, say, Bradford and a good pitching prospect for SS prospect Brent Brewer. Or we could propose a bit stronger package for Rickie Weeks.

[Guest rochester]

Trembley is the first manager we've had here since Davey Johnson that I have full confidence that he's thinking ahead in games. He doesn't get caught with the wrong guy in the wrong situation unless he's stuck by the lack of talent on his roster.

Ok... this is what I should have added...

[MurphDogg]

He hasn't got a high on-base percentage, but he's got a .197 ISO this season.

And seriously, what shortstop prospects could we get for Bradford? He gives us a cheap 5 year solution, which gives us time to develop someone like maybe Garabez Rosa or a drafted prospect.

Read my previous post, he is not cheap and is not a 5 year solution.