Pop Goes the UCL - Zach to Have TJS

[foxfield]

10 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Something just wasn't right when his velocity dropped so much so fast this spring. That was a red flag. Hopefully all will go well and he'll come back and throw even harder.

OH

 

 

The irony.....

 

[tntoriole]

9 hours ago, Luke-OH said:

Isn’t it like 80% get all their velocity back? He’s young, a reliever, and in AA already, so it won’t hurt him developmentally as much as some. Hopefully he’ll have a full recovery, pulling for the kid.

There are a number of studies that drill exactly down to velocity return, although most identify Return to Pitching as the primary outcome measure ...i.e. did they return to the same level-college, professional, minor or major league.   But even at that measure, the rate after modified Jobe  allograft reconstruction of torn UCLs can achieve 87 percent return rate across studies.  And the 2 studies below looked specifically at the performance return rates after 179 UCL repairs with  and the other citation is a specific analysis of post repair pitching parameters over 2 year post surgery in 28 ML pitchers with no significant decline in velocity compared to a control group of noninjured pitchers. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4687831/?report=reader

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24496506

 

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

There are a number of studies that drill exactly down to velocity return, although most identify Return to Pitching as the primary outcome measure ...i.e. did they return to the same level-college, professional, minor or major league.   But even at that measure, the rate after modified Jobe  allograft reconstruction of torn UCLs can achieve 87 percent return rate across studies.  And the 2 studies below looked specifically at the performance return rates after 179 UCL repairs with  and the other citation is a specific analysis of post repair pitching parameters over 2 year post surgery in 28 ML pitchers with no significant decline in velocity compared to a control group of noninjured pitchers. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4687831/?report=reader

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24496506

 

Are those numbers solely for initial replacements or do they also cover subsequent surgeries?

From what I have read the outcome for pitchers after two or more replacements is not as cheery.

[esmd]

Yeah that's pretty much a swift kick in the old cajones.......hope everything goes well with the procedure and his rehab.

[Tony-OH]

2 hours ago, interloper said:

Not according to Roch.

But seriously, this sucks. Hoping he reappears in a couple years and is a surprise bullpen stud. 

It must've been just a lack of confidence. But that Mike Wright, now that he has confidence it's going to be a difference maker!

Well, there are mouthpieces and analysts in the world, it's up to the fans to figure out which one is which! 

[Redskins Rick]

19 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

It must've been just a lack of confidence. But that Mike Wright, now that he has confidence it's going to be a difference maker!

Well, there are mouthpieces and analysts in the world, it's up to the fans to figure out which one is which! 

I posted something in another thread, and some of the top salaries they earn, amazing how much some of those mouthpieces get paid.

[Just Regular]

2 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Are those numbers solely for initial replacements or do they also cover subsequent surgeries?

From what I have read the outcome for pitchers after two or more replacements is not as cheery.

I've heard anecdotally that almost no one has returned to pitching effectively in the bigs after two surgeries.  Jonny Venters I guess has his own special category.  I couldn't find a quick list of guys who have had it twice, but there was some fun sorting the table on the Wikipedia page by date of surgery.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_baseball_players_who_underwent_Tommy_John_surgery

I didn't know it wasn't until a few years after Tommy John had his that anyone else did, or that Don Aase and Paul Molitor were among the earliest to have it.  

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, OrioleDog said:

I've heard anecdotally that almost no one has returned to pitching effectively in the bigs after two surgeries.  Jonny Venters I guess has his own special category.  I couldn't find a quick list of guys who have had it twice, but there was some fun sorting the table on the Wikipedia page by date of surgery.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_baseball_players_who_underwent_Tommy_John_surgery

I didn't know it wasn't until a few years after Tommy John had his that anyone else did, or that Don Aase and Paul Molitor were among the earliest to have it.  

From what I have read they don't even know the name of the second person to undergo the surgery.  He was a javelin thrower if I recall correctly. 

[Redskins Rick]

This alarming report back from 2013 and BR said 1/3 of all MLB had to have TJ.

I can only guess, the number is way higher now.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1699659-the-alarming-increase-in-mlb-pitchers-whove-had-tommy-john-surgery

[Tony-OH]

30 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

I posted something in another thread, and some of the top salaries they earn, amazing how much some of those mouthpieces get paid.

I don't begrudge any of them from making a living. Roch gets paid by the MASN who is owned by the Orioles, he learned long ago how to keep that gig. He does a good job of getting information out like he should. 

I'm not a fan of him personally since he got all crazy with me over something posters said on here (he blamed me for not deleting this comments by Frobby), but he does a decent job of what he supposed to be doing.

I didn't like Dan Duquette personally either, but I was fair to him as well, even to the point of defending him many times.

It's not a requirement for me to like someone to be fair about them, and that includes posters, players, coaches, front office folks or even media.   

[Redskins Rick]

1 minute ago, Tony-OH said:

I don't begrudge any of them from making a living. Roch gets paid by the MASN who is owned by the Orioles, he learned long ago how to keep that gig. He does a good job of getting information out like he should. 

I'm not a fan of him personally since he got all crazy with me over something posters said on here (he blamed me for not deleting this comments by Frobby), but he does a decent job of what he supposed to be doing.

I didn't like Dan Duquette personally either, but I was fair to him as well, even to the point of defending him many times.

It's not a requirement for me to like someone to be fair about them, and that includes posters, players, coaches, front office folks or even media.   

and Roch didnt make the list of top paid mouthpieces.

I stopped reading the comments from his posters as they were absolutely unbelievable clowns.

DD was a strange one, respected his work when he was around to run things, but not somebody that I would like to sit down and talk over a cold one.

[Camden_yardbird]

13 hours ago, Luke-OH said:

Isn’t it like 80% get all their velocity back? He’s young, a reliever, and in AA already, so it won’t hurt him developmentally as much as some. Hopefully he’ll have a full recovery, pulling for the kid.

I know some more recent studies have suggested it isnt just the formality you think it should be and the rate of return and actually MLB contribution is closer to 50%.

He is young.  That will help and I wish him the best.

[tntoriole]

10 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Are those numbers solely for initial replacements or do they also cover subsequent surgeries?

From what I have read the outcome for pitchers after two or more replacements is not as cheery.

These studies are initial replacement studies, not revisions which have substantially worse outcomes.