Mancini Trade Package

[foxfield]

1 minute ago, atomic said:

Ok show me a post from back then where people were saying the Astros were smart to do this.  The Cubs won 61 games in 2012, 66 in 2013 and 73 in 2014.  Exactly what I say we should be doing.  

Wait, the Cubs signed Adam Jones?

[atomic]

11 minutes ago, Lucky_13 said:

How is winning 61 or 66 games better then winning 50 or 55?  At least the latter gets you the number one pick.  The strategy of trying to win 70 games reminds me of what the New York Jets did from like 2008-2016.  Suck but not enough to really be able to secure impact talent. 

Because getting better each year should be a goal.  

[Lucky_13]

Just now, atomic said:

Because getting better each year should be a goal.  

But this is the first year of the rebuild.  They were trying to win at the start of last year

Obviously if they are still winning 50 games two or three years from now the strategy failed. 

[DrungoHazewood]

7 minutes ago, atomic said:

Ok show me a post from back then where people were saying the Astros were smart to do this.  The Cubs won 61 games in 2012, 66 in 2013 and 73 in 2014.  Exactly what I say we should be doing.  

Here.  And here.  And here.  Here.  That's just a two minute search, I'm sure there were others.

The Cubs had a larger revenue and talent base than the Orioles are starting with.  It's far easier to do a rebuild with large-market resources.

[DrungoHazewood]

12 minutes ago, atomic said:

Because getting better each year should be a goal.  

Actually, the goal is to build a quality, self-sustaining organization that can compete regularly given Baltimore's resources.  Individual year win totals are largely irrelevant for several years.

[WalkWithElias]

40 minutes ago, atomic said:

Ok show me a post from back then where people were saying the Astros were smart to do this.  The Cubs won 61 games in 2012, 66 in 2013 and 73 in 2014.  Exactly what I say we should be doing.  

This seems like a self-own. 

Your argument is that nobody thought the Astros or the Cubs were doing the right thing when they lost tons of games and finished at the bottom of the league for several years, and then very quickly revitalized their entire roster with young talent that led them to pennants and championships. 

Now you post over and over (and over and over and over) again that the team isn't doing the right thing since they are losing a ton of games. The comparison you're pointing to contradicts your argument. 

But I'm explaining something very logical here for the umpteenth time that has been said be plenty of other posters on here, so maybe I'm the crazy one. 

[Frobby]

21 minutes ago, atomic said:

Ok show me a post from back then where people were saying the Astros were smart to do this.  The Cubs won 61 games in 2012, 66 in 2013 and 73 in 2014.  Exactly what I say we should be doing.  

 

19 minutes ago, Lucky_13 said:

How is winning 61 or 66 games better then winning 50 or 55?  At least the latter gets you the number one pick.  The strategy of trying to win 70 games reminds me of what the New York Jets did from like 2008-2016.  Suck but not enough to really be able to secure impact talent. 

 

12 minutes ago, atomic said:

Because getting better each year should be a goal.  

For the record, the Cubs won 71 games the season immediately before Theo was hired.   So they were 10 games worse than before his first year with the Cubs.   He took payroll from $136 mm to $86 mm, then to $68 mm, then to $60 mm.

Elias inherited a 47-win team that already had traded away Machado, Schoop, Gausman, Britton, Brach and O’Day.    I’d submit that the remaining team had a lot less talent and remaining trade chips than the 71-win Cub team that Theo inherited.    It’s pretty unrealistic to think that Elias could have turned this into a 61-win team this year without spending a whole bunch of money that is better saved for another time or spent on other, long term priorities.   

[WalkWithElias]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

For the record, the Cubs won 71 games the season immediately before Theo was hired.   So they were 10 games worse than before his first year with the Cubs.   He took payroll from $136 mm to $86 mm, then to $68 mm, then to $60 mm.

Elias inherited a 47-win team that already had traded away Machado, Schoop, Gausman, Britton, Brach and O’Day.    I’d submit that the remaining team had a lot less talent and remaining trade chips than the 71-win Cub team that Theo inherited.    It’s pretty unrealistic to think that Elias could have turned this into a 61-win team this year without spending a whole bunch of money that is better saved for another time or spent on other, long term priorities.   

I don't know. I'm sure the stands would be packed and we'd be popping bottles to celebrate a 65-win team after adding Matt Harvey, Derek Holland, Jesse Chavez, Kurt Suzuki, and Billy Hamilton to double the team's payroll. 

[DrungoHazewood]

4 minutes ago, WalkWithElias said:

I don't know. I'm sure the stands would be packed and we'd be popping bottles to celebrate a 65-win team after adding Matt Harvey, Derek Holland, Jesse Chavez, Kurt Suzuki, and Billy Hamilton to double the team's payroll. 

It's not like the Orioles attendance fell from 2.7 to 1.7M over the period where they filled the roster with Jeff Conine, Kevin Millar, Jay Payton, Jamie Walker, Danys Baez, Steve Kline, Cesar Izturis, Ty Wigginton, Corey Patterson, Garrett Atkins... Wait, what?  Oh, maybe it did.

[WalkWithElias]

7 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

It's not like the Orioles attendance fell from 2.7 to 1.7M over the period where they filled the roster with Jeff Conine, Kevin Millar, Jay Payton, Jamie Walker, Danys Baez, Steve Kline, Cesar Izturis, Ty Wigginton, Corey Patterson, Garrett Atkins... Wait, what?  Oh, maybe it did.

Don't forget about Chad Bradford and Devi Cruz. I miss when we had a front office with the foresight to open that checkbook in an effort to show fans they really care by striving for 71 wins. 

[BohKnowsBmore]

7 hours ago, atomic said:

Ok show me a post from back then where people were saying the Astros were smart to do this.  The Cubs won 61 games in 2012, 66 in 2013 and 73 in 2014.  Exactly what I say we should be doing.  

 

6 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Here.  And here.  And here.  Here.  That's just a two minute search, I'm sure there were others.

The Cubs had a larger revenue and talent base than the Orioles are starting with.  It's far easier to do a rebuild with large-market resources.

Not to mention that SI put them on the cover as predicted 2017 champions, in mid-2014, following their string of terrible seasons. That’s not an OH post, but the notion that there wasn’t support for their plan or acknowledgement of the rationality is crazy. 

[atomic]

7 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Here.  And here.  And here.  Here.  That's just a two minute search, I'm sure there were others.

The Cubs had a larger revenue and talent base than the Orioles are starting with.  It's far easier to do a rebuild with large-market resources.

None of that is backing up when they had their 3 50 win seasons. 2 of the post are from 2015 and one is from 2014.the other is from 2013 when they won a few games. Come back when you have real,posts.

[OFFNY]

o

 

 

(vs. GIANTS, 5/31)

 

NUMBER 11

 

JOSEPH ANTHONY MANCINI

JOSEPH ANTHONY MANCINI

JOSEPH ANTHONY MANCINI

JOSEPH ANTHONY MANCINI

JOSEPH ANTHONY MANCINI

JOSEPH ANTHONY MANCINI

JOSEPH ANTHONY MANCINI

 

o

[tntoriole]

26 minutes ago, OFFNY said:

o

 

 

(vs. GIANTS, 5/31)

 

NUMBER 10

 

JOSEPH ANTHONY MANCINI

JOSEPH ANTHONY MANCINI

JOSEPH ANTHONY MANCINI

JOSEPH ANTHONY MANCINI

JOSEPH ANTHONY MANCINI

JOSEPH ANTHONY MANCINI

JOSEPH ANTHONY MANCINI

 

o

11 actually. 

[LA2]

The idea that we might trade away Mancini before dropping Davis or Trumbo I find troubling.