Boston better before or away the Manny trade?

[wildcard]

Interested in your opinion on this one. Boston traded a HOFer in the middle of a pennant race. Manny have said worse thing is the past and got away with it, but not this time.

[Spoonless]

I think they're better without him, based on how this season was playing out. They'd be better with Manny if you knew he was going to play out the rest of the season, and put up his usual numbers. However, with what has transpired this season and what has gone on in the past, Manny quitting on the team was a very real possibility.

I don't know how much of it was Boras driven, but a lot of people around here think he played a sizable factor in it all, at the very least influencing Manny's perception of the Red Sox organization. Obviously Boras didn't want the Sox picking up the options, as he's not making any money off of Ramirez's contract until he signs a new one.

In all reality, I don't even know how to evaluate this trade. I mean, obviously you're going to compare Bay's production in Boston to Manny's in LA, but who knows what Manny would do if still in Boston and unhappy.

This has to have been one of the quickest falls from grace ever. The fans absolutely loved Manny.

[wildcard]

Just a note: Manny had a 926 OPS at the time he was traded.

[scOtt]

Better after the trade. Theo just went up another notch in my book. Brilliant 3-way trade. All but LA benefit.

[RShack]

I'd vote for "pretty much the same" if I could...

[Sanfran327]

And Bay was .894. Manny is the more dynamic hitter but between the side circus he was causing and the upgrade on defense, I'd say the Sox are at least just as good, maybe even better.

The problem now is that they lack their cleanup hitter now. I think their lineup would be best if they could do something like this:

Pedrioa

Elsbury

Youkilis

Papi

Lowell

Bay

Drew

Varitek

Lugo

I know it looks like Bay and Drew are pretty far down in the lineup, but I don't view that as a problem. All that means is that they have fantastic hitters in the 6/7 spots. You take a lot of pressure off of Drew, who seems to wilt under presure, and Bay. It's important to let Bay acclimate to the new environment as he's never played in a big market, let alone a stretch run towards the playoffs. He made a great play in LF last night; one that Manny surely wouldn't have made. I don't think they're as good, but they were pretty dang good to begin with, so this isn't crippling. We may see them miss the playoffs this year, but that will only be for 2008. They have too many other pieces to stay out of it for long. I think the Rays and Yankees are in a better position down the stretch because they haven't had the stress to deal with. Price is bound to make the Rays better, and the Skankees added some veteran, playoff-seasoned talent in Pudge. This is shaping up to be a great second half in the AL East. Too bad we're watching from the sideline.

[BaltimoreTerp]

They are about the same in the short run, and maybe at least for next year, but they basically traded Manny Ramirez, two prospects, and a LOT of money for Jason Bay.

That's a lot to give up just to get rid of someone and receive approximately equal value in return.

[Mad Mark]

Rather like the Orioles and Tejada, the Red $ox - Manny marriage had run its course, and both sides wanted a divorce. The Red $ox could afford to take the short-term financial hit on this deal, and will move forward slightly worse off offensively, but better off defensively.

The real loser is likely the Dodgers.

They have yet another guy to fit into their awkward outfield rotation.

Manny Ramirez is a natural DH, who was forced to play the OF because the $ox determined that Ramirez in LF would do less damage than Ortiz at 1B. Why a National League team traded for him is beyond me.

[twoBshorty]

On the whole, I think they're better off. I was more on the fence until reports started coming out about how corrosive this was in the clubhouse and what kind of effect it was having on Francona. Then when it was reported last night that Boras called after the trade to say that Manny didn't want to be traded and that if they nullified his two club options (which he apparently didn't even know about until last winter), he'd behave for the rest of the year, that basically confirmed to me that he was deliberately doing this stuff a la Jay Payton. I don't know what kind of on-field effect it will have, but I think it had to happen. It went too far this time.

Epstein makes his fair share of mistakes, but between this and the Nomar deal, the man has serious balls.

[Scrat1]

They were better with Manny when he was behaving. But after he became a distraction, the trade was in their best interest. Manny is the better player, but Jay will help their team more.

Time will tell if Bay can handle the pressure of being in Boston. I think he can. That's one useful thing about Manny's narcassism -- he didn't give a crap and so the pressure could never give to him.

[Sanfran327]

Rather like the Orioles and Tejada, the Red $ox - Manny marriage had run its course, and both sides wanted a divorce. The Red $ox could afford to take the short-term financial hit on this deal, and will move forward slightly worse off offensively, but better off defensively.

The real loser is likely the Dodgers.

They have yet another guy to fit into their awkward outfield rotation.

Manny Ramirez is a natural DH, who was forced to play the OF because the $ox determined that Ramirez in LF would do less damage than Ortiz at 1B. Why a National League team traded for him is beyond me.

He'll likely DH - hopefully for us - next year. I've been looking at the Dodgers OF since Thursday afternoon. I just don't see how they can do it. Do you put Manny back to RF and let Kemp play LF with Jones in CF? When do Ethier and Pierre play? This is a clustercluck.

[Moose Milligan]

It's not so much that they gave up Manny...it's that they also gave up prospects that seem to be pretty well regarded. Combine that, I don't like the trade too much for Boston.

Someone noted that while Manny's OPS is like .926, Bay is .894...but I don't think Bay has that "presence" that Manny has, that aura. I was always afraid when Manny was up against us...and while Bay is a really good hitter who is OPSing similar to Manny this year, I highly doubt others hold him in the same regard and pitch to him the same way.

I don't think Boston is way worse, I just don't think they're that better. You can rag on Manny all you want for his defense and his goofiness, but he won two rings there.

You can't knock that no matter how hard you try.

[McNulty]

I think the deciding factor is going to be if Jason Bay is on a hot streak for any part of the next two months. He's got to be one of the most notoriously streaky hitters right now, and if he gets hot I'm sure this trade is a winner for them.

If he gets cold, then watch out. Douchy Sox fans won't have the mental capacity to understand this, and will Renteria his arse outta town. (Yes, I just used Renteria as a verb).

[mweb]

About the same in terms of on field performance, probably better when you consider the drama that Manny brought to the table.

[wildcard]

I think that Boston give up a whole lot trading Manny. He and Ortiz were the driving force behind two World Championships. I would not be surprised if trading Manny is the end of an era.

Frank is not Manny and Manny is not Frank, but this kind of reminds me on when Frank was traded by the O's. Were they still a good team. Yes they were. But that group of players was never the same. It took 8 years for the O's to visit the WS series again.